Hell

[leo-rcc]

Ace,

You got it WRONG! Hitler is having pineapples shoved up his ass daily while wearing a tutu.

Rhizo

Crown first.

[Craveman]

Hahaha! You're all twisted...I like it!

[fr0d0]

Hell is a place sinners are sent to and can never return from correct?

Catholics added purgatory but AFAIK that isn't scriptural. Hell is also in this life as in separation from God. The afterlife is a continuation of that. After death there's no changing your mind, or God changing his.. this isn't Runaround (UK kids TV show where you get to change your mind on a question).

Hell is designed for eternal banishment and suffering, correct?

Erm.. yeah. The Hell after death, sure.

If your god created this place called hell, did he not believe in the rehabilitation of murderers, convicts and other types of sinners? Or were these people, to him, just a waste of time and only deserved to be destroyed?

Anyone in life could change no matter what their position or history. Apparently God made provision for some to ultimately reject him. Destruction was obviously too good for them!

[solarwave]

Hell is a place sinners are sent to and can never return from correct? Hell is designed for eternal banishment and suffering, correct?

If your god created this place called hell, did he not believe in the rehabilitation of murderers, convicts and other types of sinners? Or were these people, to him, just a waste of time and only deserved to be destroyed?


In advance, I just want to say that I appreciate your insights, thanks.

Hell is ether eternal or will be destoryed at some point. I will assume the first since i don't know much about the second.

God does believe in the rehabilitation of sinners, the problem is they reject the method of rehabilitation through Jesus Christ.

Here is my view on hell as I best understand it. We sin and so can't go to heaven because heaven is perfect. So if we die unforgiven we have to go somewhere else. This place is called hell and can be seen as punishment, destruction, or a void. God is just so sins can't be simply forgiven, a price must be paid and the price is ether our lives or Jesus'. Those who don't accept forgiveness and rejected God are finally left alone without God. Personally I think hell is the complete separation from God and the consequences of that with God being the source of all goodness.

What would you have God do? Wipe away their sins at all costs and give them a new start. Well He has done through Jesus. If someone doesn't accept forgiveness how can they be forgiven.

[Retorth]

God does believe in the rehabilitation of sinners, the problem is they reject the method of rehabilitation through Jesus Christ.

Can you show me where it states that he believes in rehabilitation? I've only seen him condemning.

Here is my view on hell as I best understand it. We sin and so can't go to heaven because heaven is perfect. So if we die unforgiven we have to go somewhere else. This place is called hell and can be seen as punishment, destruction, or a void. God is just so sins can't be simply forgiven, a price must be paid and the price is ether our lives or Jesus'. Those who don't accept forgiveness and rejected God are finally left alone without God. Personally I think hell is the complete separation from God and the consequences of that with God being the source of all goodness.

When you say "if we die unforgiven we have to go somewhere else", are you saying that when we die we are still conscious? That we can move about, see, feel, smell and touch?

So long as we do not accept god, we are sent to hell, irregardless of how good a life we've led when we were alive?

What would you have God do? Wipe away their sins at all costs and give them a new start. Well He has done through Jesus. If someone doesn't accept forgiveness how can they be forgiven.

If we do not believe in the whole concept of the religion and the self-sacrifice, then all this doesn't apply in the first place. Furthermore, he gave us free will did he not? So we supposedly have the ability to go our own way, yet we are condemned still.

[Ryft]

1. "Hell is a place sinners are sent to and can never return from, correct?"

Ehhhh... sure, correct. (Hell is an event, not a place.)

2. "Hell is designed for eternal banishment and suffering, correct?"

Eternal banishment? Question #1 already asked that. Eternal suffering? Incorrect.

3. "If your God created this place called hell, did he not believe in the rehabilitation of ... sinners?"

Of course he did; but that takes place here in this life. Hell is reserved for the unrehabilitated. (And if we are talking about the lake of fire, Gk. gehenna, it is not a place God has created but an event he will bring about.)

4. "Or were these people to him just a waste of time ..."

Nothing with God is a waste of time. "The LORD has made everything for his own purposes, even the wicked for a day of disaster" (Proverbs 16:4). "Even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction. He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory" (Romans 9:22-23). And so on.

5. "... and only deserved to be destroyed?"

Yes.

You have to be careful when exploring the subject of hell in Scriptures because "hell" refers to three different things, using distinct Greek words for each—the grave, the lake of fire, and chains of darkness. (The latter is used only once in Scripture, 2 Peter 2:4; only the angels who sinned are subject to that hell, in which they are held until the judgment, after which they join everything else in the lake of fire.)

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What would you have God do? Wipe away their sins at all costs and give them a new start. Well He has done through Jesus. If someone doesn't accept forgiveness how can they be forgiven.

At least give C.S. Lewis the respect of attribution, Solarwave. That is straight out of his book The Problem of Pain: "In the long run the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell is itself a question: ‘What are you asking God to do?’ To wipe out their past sins and, at all costs, to give them a fresh start, smoothing every difficulty and offering every miraculous help? But He has done so, on Calvary. To forgive them? They will not be forgiven. To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is what He does."

[solarwave]

Arcanus: Good of you to spot that lol.

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Can you show me where it states that he believes in rehabilitation? I've only seen him condemning.

The whole point of Jesus' life, death and resurrection was to rehabilitate those who sin and save them from hell and their sinful nature. Choosing to follow Jesus forgives your sin and starts the (normally) slow process of being morel like Christ.

When you say "if we die unforgiven we have to go somewhere else", are you saying that when we die we are still conscious? That we can move about, see, feel, smell and touch?

So long as we do not accept god, we are sent to hell, irregardless of how good a life we've led when we were alive?

Well I dunno exactly how hell will work, from what Arcanus said he thinks it is more of an event than a place. I think we will still be conscious and heaven probably be able to move, see, etc.

In Christian thought you don't make it to heaven by being a good person only through Jesus Christ. So an evil person can ask for forgiveness and go to heaven. I dont think a good life saves you because no matter how good you are it doesn't remove the fact that you have sinned. This doesn't mean Christians can sin and still go to heaven because if you are trully saved the result should be trying to be a better person.

If we do not believe in the whole concept of the religion and the self-sacrifice, then all this doesn't apply in the first place. Furthermore, he gave us free will did he not? So we supposedly have the ability to go our own way, yet we are condemned still.

And apparently you do go your own way. If you don't want God then you will get your own way for eternity.

[Ace Otana]

The whole point of Jesus' life, death and resurrection was to rehabilitate those who sin and save them from hell and their sinful nature.

That's if god exists of course.
Sin and hell are only concepts but am willing to debate more into the subject.

In Christian thought you don't make it to heaven by being a good person only through Jesus Christ

So good people are being tortured all the time despite the reasons to not believe due to total lack of supporting evidence in a supernatural non-tempral unprovable being? Com'on! There are some pretty good reasons to reject the whole religious thing. To be turtured for it shows god is not all loving at all. Good thing there is no such thing as a god or a hell.

I dont think a good life saves you because no matter how good you are it doesn't remove the fact that you have sinned.

Sin is just a concept.
So by what you've said, no matter how good you are you still end up being tortured for all eternity? Doesn't sound at all fair. God is far from moral and all loving if what you've said is true.

And apparently you do go your own way. If you don't want God then you will get your own way for eternity.

It's not a fact of wanting god it's about not believing in his existence. Until there is any real evidence of such a place or thing, I will rest assured that god is not real and nor is any hell or heaven. Nothing to worry about. Just the normal religious bullshit to be ignored.

[chatpilot]

Although salvation is contingent on faith in Christ the bible clearly teaches that works are just as important. Salvation is contingent on faith in Christ and his sacrifice and obeying the commandments of God. Anything else is a guaranteed one way ticket to hell!

James 2:24,26

24.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
26.For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

According to Matthew 19:17 when Jesus was asked about this matter this was his reply:
17.And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

[Ryft]

Although salvation is contingent on faith in Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that works are just as important.

Works are important, yes, but not because they in any way contribute to your salvation. The apostles Paul and James are bookends on the issue of faith. On the one end, Paul is addressing those who think works are required for salvation; he is telling them that salvation is secured only in the atoning work of Christ, in whom we place our trust for salvation. On the other end, James is addressing those who think a pretense of faith will garner salvation; he is telling them that how a person behaves or conducts himself reveals whether or not they truly have faith. As pastor John Piper summarized the entire spectrum, "We are saved by faith alone, but that faith is not itself alone." It is faith that saves, not works. But saving faith produces works. By their fruit you will recognize them, Jesus said, "fruit" describing the end product that one expects to observe in someone in whom the Holy Spirit has been working (Matt. 7:15-27; cf. Gal. 5:16-25).

According to Matthew 19:17, when Jesus was asked about this matter he replied, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

It is true that one can get to heaven by keeping the commandments. It is also true that no one keeps all the commandments, nor even a specific commandment consistently—which Jesus ends up revealing to the rich young ruler in that very passage, and which the other apostles elaborate upon elsewhere in the New Testament.