Hell

[chatpilot]

Great post Arcanus, thanks for making that clearer to those that are not so familiar with the bible and its teachings. By their fruits shall you recognize them suggests as you have said that their faith will be evident by their works (fruits). In other words the Holy Spirit will induce them to seek righteousness. I believe that it is impossible to keep the full commandments of the Lord since even erroneous thinking is considered a sin.

[solarwave]

That's if god exists of course.
Sin and hell are only concepts but am willing to debate more into the subject.

If you want

So good people are being tortured all the time despite the reasons to not believe due to total lack of supporting evidence in a supernatural non-tempral unprovable being? Com'on! There are some pretty good reasons to reject the whole religious thing. To be turtured for it shows god is not all loving at all. Good thing there is no such thing as a god or a hell.

I made the point of saying you are saved only through Jesus Christ, not only those who are christians. I think there are those you can't be blamed for not following Christ and there are those you obviously reject Him. I think God saves people in strange ways and people you may not expect in heaven may be there, but that isn't an excuse not to be a christian. I dont think there is a lack of reason to believe in God, I think theres a lack of will to accept Him.

Sin is just a concept.
So by what you've said, no matter how good you are you still end up being tortured for all eternity? Doesn't sound at all fair. God is far from moral and all loving if what you've said is true.

Doesn't sound fair to reject the God who died for you ether. I don't think simply being good saves you, theres more to it than that. If your a 'moral' person but obviously rejecting God how can being good compensate for that rejection.

It's not a fact of wanting god it's about not believing in his existence. Until there is any real evidence of such a place or thing, I will rest assured that god is not real and nor is any hell or heaven. Nothing to worry about. Just the normal religious bullshit to be ignored.

If scientific evidence is the only way to know God properly how would have people known God before modern science came along?

[Ace Otana]

I think there are those you can't be blamed for not following Christ and there are those you obviously reject Him.

Ever heard of lack of evidence? There is no evidence to suggest that jesus was god. I reject the claim you've made. There is every reason to.

I think God saves people in strange ways and people you may not expect in heaven may be there

I doubt there is such a thing as a god and afterlife and so I never dwell on the thought.
Chances are there is no such thing as a god or afterlife.

I dont think there is a lack of reason to believe in God,

Yes there is. Lack of evidence! Nothing supports your claim. Good enough reason to not believe I think.

I think theres a lack of will to accept Him

Nope, it's lack of evidence.

Doesn't sound fair to reject the God who died for you ether

You have yet to provide evidence for your assertions.

I don't think simply being good saves you, theres more to it than that.

Well good and evil are only concepts. Being socially minded is natural to all of us by nature. So if that's not good enough to get into this made up place you call heaven then I have no choice but to go to hell for being decent thus proving how immoral god is.

If your a 'moral' person but obviously rejecting God how can being good compensate for that rejection.

Being good or evil are only concepts. Being socially minded by nature has nothing to do with god.

If scientific evidence is the only way to know God properly how would have people known God before modern science came along?

It's called using your imagination.

[chatpilot]

solar you love to harp on about Jesus dying for our sins etc. But when you come to think of it what kind of sacrifice did he do if he came back to life? A sacrifice usually implies dying as in the animals sacrificed in the O.T. and staying dead. Where the shedding of your blood would be the atonement for your sins.

Not only that but crucifixion was a common practice in the Roman empire so it's not like Jesus if he ever existed was the only one ever crucified in history. There are several things that convince me that Jesus as an historical figure did not exist.
1. There is no secular evidence outside of the scriptures that he existed.
2. His coming back to life nullifies his sacrifice.
3. There is no evidence that he was "the Son of God".

When you really think about it many people have suffered 10 times over what Jesus allegedly suffered. If you have any doubts about that ask any living Holocaust survivor. Even the church martyrs suffered more horrible and painful deaths than Christ.

I agree with Ace on God being cruel for sending a good person to hell simply for not believing in God although he does not present evidence of his so called existence.

[Violet]

Crucifixion!? You lucky bastard!

People GLORIFY the torture of Jesus... a show of this can be seen in 'Religulous' (Bill Maher)... where people were snapping fucking photos of a torture concept, and praising the fucking hell out of it. I see no difference between taking pictures and bowing down to crucifixion... and taking pictures and bowing down to the much more imaginative and horrible tortures performed during the Holocaust...

Crucifixion was often performed with dozens at a time... a mere 'King of the Jews' is nothing special by Roman concepts. But I abhor praising torture...

[chatpilot]

You should try visiting a spanish Pentecostal church sometime Saerules no one can glorify the death of Christ any better than they can. They sing about the blood of the lamb with such zeal and wear their crucifixes with pride.

[Violet]

So... they enjoy mutton?

[fr0d0]

Mutton is sheep not lamb

[Violet]

Lamb is baby sheep... so they enjoy slaughter of the young AND the eating of mutton? Mutton is sheep meat...

[Edwardo Piet]

Mutton is adult sheep meat, baby sheep meat is just called lamb, right?

Which I think was fr0d0's point.

EvF