Measles Outbreak at Vaccine-Denying Church

[Cyberman]

We aren't getting much accomplish as far as exchange of ideas and experiences. The time is wasted in rebutting bullshit!

I agree.

And, I can't take anyone serious that keeps using profanity. Its childish, annoying and dumb. Are we not all sensible adults here?

The problem is that no one on your side of the fence will call them out! You get your popcorn out and enjoy the spectacle. So, that makes anyone doing that just as ignorant, and a party to the personal attacks.

Well the answer is simple, isn't it? If anybody is making personal attacks, hit the [Report post] button at the foot of the offending post and the Staff will do the rest.

That we haven't intervened thus far is revealing, n'est-ce pas?

[Bad Writer]

We aren't getting much accomplish as far as exchange of ideas and experiences. The time is wasted in rebutting bullshit!

Rebutting bullshit is never a waste of time. The only time wasted is when the rebuttals are ignored.

And, I can't take anyone serious that keeps using profanity.

Ronedee, you spend so much time focusing on the little things that make you uncomfortable that you miss out on discussing the bigger issues at hand. You're not going to change the way people talk, so you should work on ignoring the words you don't like so that you can contribute more to the discussion.

The problem is that no one on your side of the fence will call them out! You get your popcorn out and enjoy the spectacle. So, that makes anyone doing that just as ignorant, and a party to the personal attacks.

Boo hoo. If I disagreed with what others say to you, I would chime in and say something differently, but most of the time what is directed at you and your faith are warranted. I enjoy seeing you squirm a bit because I know that you, as a human being, have the ability to overcome the ridicule and really start shining. The refinery process is long, but it's necessary.

I have friends and family that are atheists. I can't say that I've had even one tenth of the display of anger, hate and angst in discussions about "anything" with them!

Maybe if we were face to face it would be a lot different?

You're right. Sometimes written words can sound very harsh when you read them in your head, but remember that when a real life discussion takes place, the reality of the words remain, even if the heat is gone.

[Psykhronic]

And, I can't take anyone serious that keeps using profanity.

There's this saying about an inability to see the forest through the trees that you should really look into.

[Angrboda]

My mother was a Buddhist. Buddhist worship the path of the 'awakened one.' To walk this path and to acheave this 'wakened' state elevates one to an enlightened sense of being, which trancends all of the 'dukkha/pain and suffering' the ignorant suffer from. To acheave this zen elevates these transcended believers to a state of nirvana. From this state some believe one can reach the ultimate state as a budda has and can be 'reborn' and keep coming back in higher states of existence. The end goal for the Buddhist is 'buddahood.' In essence Buddhism is a form of self worship that elevates it's believer too a FORM of godhood. So the Buddist worships the path to enlightment, which deifies the indivisual to a degree.

To be a Buddhist, and to fight in a war would destroy everything they believed in (That is why so many of them set themselves on fire rather than fight in a war.) For those who fought, and caused suffering and pain knew they could never have the hope to obtain a true state of Zen, thus pushing them to seek other religions, or to simply try and start over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
http://nichirenbuddhist.org/LearnBuddhis...k/ch2.html

This has to be one of the most fucked up, wrong-headed descriptions of Buddhism that I've ever heard.

No, just no.

Sorry alpo,
Reference material says yes.

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From this state some believe one can reach the ultimate state as a budda has and can be 'reborn' and keep coming back in higher states of existence ... The end goal for the Buddhist is 'buddahood.' In essence Buddhism is a form of self worship that elevates it's believer too a FORM of godhood.

Siddhartha Gautama .. is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings [attain] the cessation of all suffering, known as the sublime state of nirvāņa.

Nirvāņa ('blown out', 'extinguished', 'quieted') Perhaps better known in Buddhist discourse — where it signifies the psychosocial state that obtains when desire and its corollary, ignorance, have ceased to fuel the psychosocial entity that constitutes the 'person' and drive it on to further rebirth....
(Oxford Dictionary of Hinduism, 2009)

In other words, the goal of Buddhism is not "buddhahood" or "coming back" or indeed any state of existence at all, but the cessation of rebirth and existence. To fully understand the Buddhist concept, one has to understand the Buddhist concept of dependant origination, as Buddhist metaphysics and ontology is radically different from western realism, but the basic result is this: a Buddhist isn't looking to be reborn as a god, she is looking to put an end to being reborn.

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In essence Buddhism is a form of self worship that elevates it's believer too a FORM of godhood....

On one interpretation, although Buddhism rejects the notion of a permanent self, it does not reject the notion of an empirical self (albeit consisting of constantly changing physical and mental phenomena) that can be conveniently referred to with words such as "I", "you", "being", "individual", etc. Early Buddhist scriptures describe an enlightened individual as someone whose changing, empirical self is highly developed. According to Buddhist teachings, this phenomenon [the self] should not, either in whole or in part, be reified, either in affirmation or denial.The Buddha rejected the latter metaphysical assertions as ontological theorizing that binds one to suffering.

On another interpretation, Buddhism rejects any idea of the self. On this view it is incorrect even to speak about an "empirical self"....

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This is because constantly changing physical and mental phenomena all have impermanence, and anything with such impermanence does not amount to the idea of a self. One is permitted to use terms such as "I", "you", and so on, not because they refer to an empirical self, but simply because they are "convenient designations". They are used in much the same way that the word "it" is used in the sentence "It is cold". Here there is nothing that the word "it" refers to. It is merely a grammatical device which allows one to assert "there is cold", while using a substantive term.

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The doctrine of Anatta, that there is no real self, is one of the core doctrines of Buddhism. While some strains of Buddhism acknowledge the existence of gods on other planes of existence, to be reborn a god is the worst fate a Buddhist can imagine, as only humans can achieve nirvana and moksha (release from the endless cycle of death and rebirth). To be reborn as a god is to be fated to multiple more rebirths in order to become human again so that nirvana and moksha are once again attainable. (And the life of gods, though finite, was very, very, long.)

And the Zen Buddhists rationalized fighting in war very easily given the enormous amount of potential for abnegation of personal responsibility with the doctrine of Anatta or no self, that denies the real existence of the 'I', as well as the interwoven concept of dependent origination which, among other things, can be interpreted as saying that personal actions are simply the automatic playing out of karmic law (if my bayonet goes into your eye and kills you, it is not me that is killing you, it is you who have killed yourself by incurring the karma in a past life which required you to be stabbed in the eye in order to release you from the burden; in a sense, by stabbing you in the eye, I am doing you a favor).

(For more on the subject, see "Zen At War" by Brian Daizen Victoria , and "Buddhist Warfare" by Jerryson and Juergensmeyer.)

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That you would prostitute your mother to increase the credibility of your bullshit, as well as misrepresenting the motivations of those monks who set themselves on fire, is reprehensible.

References say that Drich is an embarrassment to his mother. (And everyone else.)

[Mister Agenda]

Why is it that God's manner to heal people relies mainly on medical science? God has never cured diseases that man has managed to cure. God still doesn't cure amputees and never will until mankind figures out how to regrow limbs.

Well...[seriously if its possible] would you prostrate yourself and worship God, if an amputee grew a limp, and praised God for it?

Or, better yet....if a man were raised from the dead, and praised God for it?

Let me predict here if I may.... No!

I don't know how I would change in the long run but I would definitely have to give serious thought to the implications of a Hindu praying for the restoration of a limb and it growing back spontaneously. I might have to give Hinduism a serious look after something like that.

You?

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I'll agree that you've shown some insight and a hint of promise. I think that's why you're surprised that I would call you out like this, since I've even repped you in the past. But isn't it interesting how we are so willing to give you praise and high-fives when you make sense and don't lie, but when you willfully disregard anything that smacks of reason, we never hesitate to call foul. There is a method to our madness.

I'm sorry that you have to sort through all my lies to get the bits of truth from me. But, if i were the tremendous "liar" some people make me out to be....

well, I don't "think" I would be bombarded with so much love from just about everyone!

I can't fart w/o someone saying I just lied! pffft...whoops! another lie!

whoa! i was just getting used to spock! Now you look like my grandad! And he's been dead for 20 years!

Were you drunk when you posted this?

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Incidentally, Ronny, the entire thread is open for public viewing. Which means that Min's excellent google fu analysis of what actually occurred is also right there, for everyone to see. Not to mention other rebuttals from myself and others. All of which you seem to be ignoring.

Can the irony train go in reverse? I think we need it to back up for another run!

Again... I'm honored with all the attention that I get! I'm trying not to get a big head here.

But, as usual you are late to the party!

And yes, I do ignore bullshit! If you gents spent as much time looking for God as you do my quotes, you might find your proof!

If you spent half as much effort on building your credibility as you do on whining that everyone is out to get you, we might have more respect for what you have to say.

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You sound almost as if you want us to stop answering you.

We aren't getting much accomplish as far as exchange of ideas and experiences. The time is wasted in rebutting bullshit!

It's the epitome of straining on a gnat!

And, I can't take anyone serious that keeps using profanity. Its childish, annoying and dumb. Are we not all sensible adults here?

There was nothing that could be considered profanity in the post you quoted except possibly the part where you said 'bullshit'. You needn't bother to quote someone if your post doesn't have anything to do with what they said.

I have friends and family that are atheists. I can't say that I've had even one tenth of the display of anger, hate and angst in discussions about "anything" with them!

Maybe you treat them as if a good relationship with them is desireable.

Maybe if we were face to face it would be a lot different?

Probably.

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I would like to say something nice about ronedee: to date, I have not observed ronedee concluding from a picture of soldiers posing with an 'atheists in foxholes' sign that they are probably rear-echelon posers who have never been in combat. Who you're compared to makes a difference.

[Angrboda]

Drich...Which God do the Zen-Buddhists pray to???

My mother was a Buddhist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
http://nichirenbuddhist.org/LearnBuddhism/IntroBook/ch2.html

I almost forgot. While the monk for whom Nichiren Buddhism is named did study Zen Buddhism, Nichiren Buddhism is not a form of Zen Buddhism and differs dramatically from the extant and historical schools of Zen Buddhism.

So even if the material in your second reference supported your description, since it refers to an entirely different branch of Buddhism, it wouldn't support your argument.

Sources say, Drich is an incompetent scholar.

[ronedee]

I guess this is fruitless! Most no one takes any responsibility for their actions around here. Its all justified by means of conjecture, and scapegoating.

I try to coverse with you guys on some kind of a human level and I get a pie in the face everytime....and the rest of you laugh it off using the "handy" excuse that I said some unmeasured, errant word or phrase in the context of my response!

I'd like to tell you what I think the root reason is why this is constant.... but it makes no difference. Whatever I said would be run around the block 10 times until it resembled some monster with a life all its own!!

This isn't about me! This is about "us"! And intelligent conversations, and exchanges examining ideas and reasons for the way we think.

I would love to hear one more of you (besides stimmy who has my respect btw) admit to the bs getting in the way of constructive exchanges! I have noticed the stand-up people bail-out when the threads deteriorate! That's probably the best advice I could take!

Shame on me for taking everyones advice, and trying to set a good example in the past week! Its been a rat race to get me to fall off the wagon!

I've wasted enough time trying to get the crud off of "our" shoes! I'll be aspiring to the upper echelon of thinkers and civil people here...albeit few.

This is my final word on this subject. I won't be taking the bait anymore. Nor will I be conversing and answering posts [to me] laced w/ profanity and bs. Because in all reality; its not me, nor the message I want to relay, or want to hear from smart men and women.

[Minimalist]

Are we not all sensible adults here?

Are you?

When you unequivocally denounce the actions of the church in facilitating and trying to cover-up the massive pedophilia scandal which broke on it then we'll see.

Until then you are just another catholic apologist.

[Bad Writer]

Ronedee, is not the word "bullshit" a form of profanity? I prefer the word "dren" myself, but if you're going to cuss in your posts, then you have absolutely zero right to call other people out for swearing as well.

[Faith No More]

Most no one takes any responsibility for their actions around here. Its all justified by means of conjecture, and scapegoating.

You're almost there. Now, reflect on how those sentences might apply to you.