Religious beliefs need to stop.

[CleanShavenJesus]

As we evolve, so does our morality.

We're evolving toward a Christlike nature that's what I think is happening.

I actually have not noticed that. Can you point out how you think our morality, as a race, has improved over the years and why you attribute it to Christ?

[Sword of Christ]

OK. We might have a misconception about evidence here. When We have something to reason by, We have evidence to support our reasons. The evidence is something anyone can object to. Everyone can intake the information, though not everyone will process that information the same way. Example, if I had a tennis ball in my hand, everyone who can see would be logically inclined to agree that I had a tennis ball. If someone were blind, they can touch the ball. Not all evidence is sensual. Proof of mathematical solutions is simply a byproduct from a standard of rules (like BEDMAS).

There is also evidence that anyone can subject to. Such as, a testimonial. An anecdote. A sharp pain. This is information that is clear to 1 person, but unknown and inexperienced by another. You cannot explain colour to someone who has never seen, nor can they confirm the correct definition with You, because they will NEVER know colour.

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You want evidence that we have made some kind of moral progress toward some kind of standard over the years? Well yes for example it is now wrong to discriminate against someone because of their skin colour. This one was a fairly recent development. Women are now equal in status to men, that one goes back 100 years or so ago. It was of course central in early Christianity, but the we hadn't developed enough at that point to fully accept it. There we numerous other examples throughout society you can pick out as being true to Christs teachings. The kinds of things we take as standard now people would have thought odd in past ages. There's no evidence to suggest this was through Christ specifically it could be purely coincidental. Seems like a big coincidence to me though. I'm not keen at all on coincidences.

[CleanShavenJesus]

You want evidence that we have made some kind of moral progress toward some kind of standard over the years? Well yes for example it is now wrong to discriminate against someone because of their skin colour. This one was a fairly recent development.

Not true. In most areas, it is true. But if you watch the news about voting laws in Texas today, racism is still alive and well right here in the United States.

Women are now equal in status to men, that one goes back 100 years or so ago.

Poppycock! Feminism still exists for a reason. Women still don't even get paid as much as men in the private sector. And don't get me started about womens' lack of voice in abortion law.

There's no evidence to suggest this was through Christ specifically it could be purely coincidental. Seems like a big coincidence to me though. I'm not keen at all on coincidences.

It doesn't seem like a big coincidence at all.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Again, the bible makes it very clear that the God it advertises wants us to keep slaves. Here's a little gem from Titus in The New Testament...


Slaves must obey their masters and “please them well in all things ... showing all good fidelity.” 2:9-10

[Sword of Christ]

Not true. In most areas, it is true. But if you watch the news about voting laws in Texas today, racism is still alive and well right here in the United States.

It's as bad today as it was in the 1960s? or the 1760s when we traded African slaves? I'd say we made some progress here.

Poppycock! Feminism still exists for a reason. Women still don't even get paid as much as men in the private sector. And don't get me started about womens' lack of voice in abortion law.

Women seem to have the right to an education, vote, employment and stuff these days. You can even legally beat your wife with an object no wider than your thumb (rule of thumb). There was even a woman running for president, positions of authority we're talking about here. Unprecedented stuff. Sure it seems kind of normal to us now.

It doesn't seem like a big coincidence at all.

If you think the coming of Christ to our world had no noticeable effect upon humanity at all? This could apply to yourself then.

"For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them." Matthew 13:15

[The Reality Salesman01]

15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.... 1 Samuel 15:3

This is your God talking. There are monks in Tibet RIGHT NOW that are more tolerant and accepting than this. This is the God of your Bible. This is the God your Christ advertises. This makes sense to you? No matter how much you say that The Bible is about fellowship and congregation. This is the stuff that's in your book. These are good reasons to think Christianity is false. It contradicts everything you say Christianity is about. There's nothing loving about your God. Have you read Leviticus? It's mind numbingly foolish to think any sort of all powerful God would be at all concerned with burnt pigeons as a form of cleansing a woman for giving birth to a girl. This entire book is intellectually bankrupt.

[CleanShavenJesus]

Not true. In most areas, it is true. But if you watch the news about voting laws in Texas today, racism is still alive and well right here in the United States.

It's as bad today as it was in the 1960s? or the 1760s when we traded African slaves? I'd say we made some progress here.

I never disputed that. But "It's now wrong to discriminate against someone because of their skin colour," is a false statement because of the active racism that is still prevalent in society.

Poppycock! Feminism still exists for a reason. Women still don't even get paid as much as men in the private sector. And don't get me started about womens' lack of voice in abortion law.

Women seem to have the right to an education, vote, employment and stuff these days. You can even legally beat your wife with an object no wider than your thumb (rule of thumb). There was even a woman running for president, positions of authority we're talking about here. Unprecedented stuff. Sure it seems kind of normal to us now.[/quote]

Similar to your last point: yes, things have improved. But to say as a fact, "women are now equal to men"? Completely untrue.

It doesn't seem like a big coincidence at all.

If you think the coming of Christ to our world had no noticeable effect upon humanity at all? This could apply to yourself then.

"For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them." Matthew 13:15
[/quote]

I'm sorry, you cannot use the Bible as evidence for your point because I don't consider anything in the Bible to be true. Nothing you've presented as shown evidence of Christ as a cause of our supposed moral improvement. Besides, I don't believe Jesus ever actually existed, and even if he did, I'm sure he was not the thing we read about in the Bible. So if anything improved our morality, it was the image and/or idea of Christ, not Christ himself. But still, you have not provided anything to make me believe that it did.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Nobody is saying this stuff "comes from Christ", only that these things were not at all a priority of his as far as The Bible is concerned. Look at the ten commandments. They were apparently so important that God felt he needed to write them himself, and do so in STONE...These should be the most iron clad instructions conceivable. They should leave no room for interpretation. But...What??? The first 4 have nothing to do with keeping people safe or morally good at all!...

1.I am the Lord, your God.
2.Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3.Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4.Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

An all powerful God's number one concern is that he get recognition? This doesn't strike you as narcissistic? Perfect God, has everything, yet this is what is number one?? Is number 2 even necessary? 3 seems completely ridiculous, and 4 is absurd. How are these ideas from an omniscient being? Did he have any clue the types of horrors that mankind was going to continue to carry out? Why isn't slavery on here? All men equal? Nothing? Why not...

1. Always seek non violent resolution.
2. Do not cause harm to any person.
3. Do not hold slaves of any kind.
4. All people are equal in my eyes and shall be treated as equals.

....These seem like way better starting points!! HOW CAN CHRISTIANS SERIOUSLY NOT GET THIS????????!!!!

What are the last 6?...Oh these must cover all the other things man would need to hear directly from God to avoid confusion...

5.Honor thy father and thy mother.
6.Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7.Thou shall not commit adultery.
8.Thou shall not steal
9.Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10.Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

6.Honor your parents? No way to confuse this one. I bet I'd never be able to think of a scenario for when it would be okay to toss this one out...
7. Don't cheat on your spouse? Definitely needed a God to recognize this no-no...eh?
8. Don't steal? Who doesn't know this shit??? Where are the pearls of wisdom???????
9. Don't lie?...like ever? Is this really necessary?
10. Don't be jealous of your neighbors shit? Wow.

I can't reduce this to more absurdity if I tried...and yet...you think people who don't believe your God and the stupid shit attributed to it need to try harder to get to know him? You are either mentally handicapped or stupid. You are reduced to one of those two possible truths.

[Sword of Christ]

I never disputed that. But "It's now wrong to discriminate against someone because of their skin colour," is a false statement because of the active racism that is still prevalent in society.

But it's kind of a crime of some kind these days? They're not even supposed to give up their seats for you on the bus these days. I don't think this is a passing fad or a fashion and we will go back to what we were doing before in 100 years. It's very much something Jesus himself would approve of.

Similar to your last point: yes, things have improved. But to say as a fact, "women are now equal to men"? Completely untrue.

More equal than they were before, though still with room for improvement, which I'm sure we will make given the divine light of guidance we are enjoying here. I think it's good to have a God that does something practically good not just hang about in the sky. He gets down here and gets his hands dirty, that's the guy right there.

I'm sorry, you cannot use the Bible as evidence for your point because I don't consider anything in the Bible to be true.

I'm just saying if were true (I think it is based on the evidence) then that could be why you're not noticing the significance of the events taking place and what lays at the heart of it.

Nothing you've presented as shown evidence of Christ as a cause of our supposed moral improvement.

There was an improvement, the improvement was within the last 2000 years, the improvement fits in with what Christ taught, the improvements occurred initially in the Christian world and other parts of the world had to keep pace. I suppose you may have to believe in God to begin with to see the connection.

Besides, I don't believe Jesus ever actually existed, and even if he did, I'm sure he was not the thing we read about in the Bible.

The first parts of the NT were written well within living memory of Jesus's life so he certainly existed. Heck even King Arthur probably existed and the first accounts of him were written hundreds of years after his death.

So if anything improved our morality, it was the image and/or idea of Christ, not Christ himself.

Well it's all true in one sense or other. I think it's true in the fully real sense myself. The universe exists for some reason it may as well be a reason that has some relevance than blind chance. If you want to look for the nature of God in human life you won't go wrong the God who actually became part of human life. That would be the best one right there.

But still, you have not provided anything to make me believe that it did.

More Biblical quotation.

"He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’

"But Abraham said to him,
‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’

"He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’

"He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’

So there is basically nothing anyone could ever do or say to persuade you of the truth of the God/Christ/Holy Spirit. Or perhaps you can be persuaded it depends if you're the kind of person Jesus described or not. You could be gradually won over or slowly reeled into the full realization of Gods loving presence right here. Again not something out there in space ruling over us like a tyrant.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Cherry picking, cherry picking! It is intellectually dishonest of you to consider this to be acceptable for an adult conversation.

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Stop avoiding the crazy bullshit in your book and address it. I want you to watch yourself justify and defend the God Moses talks to in Leviticus.