Question for anyone with the knowledge to answer.

[Violet]

Chasm? I don't know of any chasm... and in event that I see one: I will be sure to build a bridge ^_^ Or... maybe I'll just hire other people to build the bridge... it's faster and less difficult ^_^

[theblindferrengi]

When it is said gods will is too complex to understand, and it takes all that study to try, isn't that just the church leaders deciding not to make up more lies when the previous layers are pierced by the needles of logical reasoning, and just attacking the people who are asking the logical questions that the bible needs 'colourful interpretation' to understand?

[fr0d0]

Sometimes it's not study. It's just being honest and open.

I think it's also them saying they don't understand something when they could be more honest and say "I don't know". It's ok to not know. Or to be still learning/ always learning.

If they made lies they would be anti God so that is illogical.

[theblindferrengi]

If somebody believes something that is not understandable because of its illogical nature, and they think it is true, they often will stend a lifetime trying to understand it [christianity] logically, and make up reasons for all the contradictions, to sand over them; because of the imposible nature of trying to make sense of somthing that doesent make sense, they can either try for a lifetime to make sense of it, they can admit to being wrong (alot of peoples egos throw that one out), or they can claim "faith". of course the lattermost option is the easy way out, as you can stop trying to understand without admiting being wrong.

If they made lies they would be anti God so that is illogical.

The clergy is not exactly a very logical bunch.

[fr0d0]

Well your starting out with a false assumption that people make a decision without reason. Then your whole argument falls down.

Christianity is entirely logical and has to justify everything.

[theblindferrengi]

People do not make decisions without some kind of reasoning behind it. I never assume they do; I do however assume some people make decisions without logical reasoning behind it.

If christianity is entirely logical as anything other than a tribal creation myth, then why does everything need a justification/explanation for christianity to make any bits of sense?

[fr0d0]

Neither of those statements make sense TBF. Could you give examples of #1?

If something is justifiable/ explainable then surely it's logical?

[theblindferrengi]

If something is justifiable/ explainable then surely it's logical?

No. Why does the sun rise? Because Apollos chariot pulls it across the sky. That explanation is not at all logical, it is however still an explanation. Christianity uses illogical things to justify/explain alot of stuff, and because people need a reason to do something, (it doesent have to be a good one, it just has to make sense to them) christians can use things like god as a reason for anything.

A person never does something for absolutely no reason. People can have stupid and illogical reasons for their actions, just as they can have good and reasonable reasons for their actions. I went and killed Bob. I killed him because he had a case of beer, and I wanted some. That is a reason, it is obviously illogical and flawed. I could have asked him for some beer, that would have been a logical thing to do. I could have just bought my own beer, that would have been much more logical.

[fr0d0]

Ah I see. Well that to me is fallacious justification.. sure you can use that for anything. I do not.

Killing Bob would only be illogical for moral and legal reasons. It would be logical in that it fulfilled a desire in you Buying your own beer would be the least risky method of achieving it

[theblindferrengi]

Ah I see. Well that to me is fallacious justification.. sure you can use that for anything. I do not.

Yes, that is the point, if you follow blindly, and without thinking, then theese fallacious justifications can be used on you. Some churches do this alot to convince followers of things.