Are jews going to hell now?

[Jackalope]

Who originally judged the Jews righteous or unrighteous? God did, so what in your mind has changed if the same God is making that same decision?

Righteous Jews used to go to heaven. Now, apparently, because they didn't buy in to the Jesus thing, they don't.

That's a rule change. You can be righteous and reject Jesus or are you going to redefine righteous too, now.

Christianity is nothing but redefining what it means to be righteous. Not that they'll admit it - I fully expect one to come along and tell me I'm wrong.

Not my problem.

[Ryantology]

Who originally judged the Jews righteous or unrighteous? God did, so what in your mind has changed if the same God is making that same decision?

First, God decided to kill all the evil people, the majority never knowing why they died. Then, he decided to make a law so that everybody would know why he was killing them and try to avoid doing those things, even though he made that virtually impossible. Then he decided to save the human race with a savior.

What I see is a Perfect God trying everything he can to get people to pay attention to him and failing, short of actually doing something useful and beneficial. I mean, it's great that you're saving us from a doom you personally engineered and could entirely avert with no effort, but I have a brain and as such, I'm not satisfied with that.

[Drich]

Who originally judged the Jews righteous or unrighteous? God did, so what in your mind has changed if the same God is making that same decision?

Righteous Jews used to go to heaven. Now, apparently, because they didn't buy in to the Jesus thing, they don't.

That's a rule change. You can be righteous and reject Jesus or are you going to redefine righteous too, now.

Righteous Jews still go to Heaven now... Revelation 7 God simply gets to decide who is and who is not righteous, Just as He did before.

---

First, God decided to kill all the evil people, the majority never knowing why they died. Then, he decided to make a law so that everybody would know why he was killing them and try to avoid doing those things, even though he made that virtually impossible. Then he decided to save the human race with a savior.

What I see is a Perfect God trying everything he can to get people to pay attention to him and failing, short of actually doing something useful and beneficial. I mean, it's great that you're saving us from a doom you personally engineered and could entirely avert with no effort, but I have a brain and as such, I'm not satisfied with that.

then use it.

How if you indeed have a brain can you say any of the things you have asserted above that the bible does not support, and then hold your conclusions from the straw man you have constructed against the God of the bible?

Maybe you should have said you have an imagination, and will illogically use your imaginings to give yourself a reason not to worship God.

---

Righteous Jews used to go to heaven. Now, apparently, because they didn't buy in to the Jesus thing, they don't.

That's a rule change. You can be righteous and reject Jesus or are you going to redefine righteous too, now.

Christianity is nothing but redefining what it means to be righteous. Not that they'll admit it - I fully expect one to come along and tell me I'm wrong.

Not my problem.

If the definition of 'Righteous' was established in the time of Moses through the Law, and subsequently in the time of Christ to include believers who seek attonement 2000 years ago, then how is it that Christianity has changed the modern understanding of the word?

wouldn't basic logic dictate that it is pop culture who has deviated from the 2000 year old definition of Righteousness? and not the other way round? After all, which definition came first?

[max-greece]

Righteous Jews used to go to heaven. Now, apparently, because they didn't buy in to the Jesus thing, they don't.

That's a rule change. You can be righteous and reject Jesus or are you going to redefine righteous too, now.

Righteous Jews still go to Heaven now... Revelation 7 God simply gets to decide who is and who is not righteous, Just as He did before.

---

---

First, God decided to kill all the evil people, the majority never knowing why they died. Then, he decided to make a law so that everybody would know why he was killing them and try to avoid doing those things, even though he made that virtually impossible. Then he decided to save the human race with a savior.

What I see is a Perfect God trying everything he can to get people to pay attention to him and failing, short of actually doing something useful and beneficial. I mean, it's great that you're saving us from a doom you personally engineered and could entirely avert with no effort, but I have a brain and as such, I'm not satisfied with that.

then use it.

How if you indeed have a brain can you say any of the things you have asserted above that the bible does not support, and then hold your conclusions from the straw man you have constructed against the God of the bible?

Maybe you should have said you have an imagination, and will illogically use your imaginings to give yourself a reason not to worship God.

---

Christianity is nothing but redefining what it means to be righteous. Not that they'll admit it - I fully expect one to come along and tell me I'm wrong.

Not my problem.

If the definition of 'Righteous' was established in the time of Moses through the Law, and subsequently in the time of Christ to include believers who seek attonement 2000 years ago, then how is it that Christianity has changed the modern understanding of the word?

wouldn't basic logic dictate that it is pop culture who has deviated from the 2000 year old definition of Righteousness? and not the other way round? After all, which definition came first?

---

I'm.......I'm.......I'm.......in....shock.

Did I just see a Christian confirm that righteous Jews go to heaven?

Erm......where the fuck were you when the Jews were being massacred in York, or during the Inquisition, or the Crusades, or.......

And whilst we are on the subject - if righteous Jews get to go to heaven anyway - just as they always did - what benefit did Jesus offer them? Could you get in being a bit less righteous than you could on your own? Suddenly it seems no great loss to them that they rejected Jesus - he didn't offer anything worthwhile.

Hang on.....if Righteous Jews get to go to heaven, what about Righteous Moslems or Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs .....

[Brian37]

I honestly don't get Jews being chummy with Christians (not in humanitarian sense, I'd like everyone to get along even if we bitch at each other, Muslims and atheists included)

But in a story line sense. The bible treats Jews like the limo driver and the Christians as the passengers to the club. The limo arrives to the club, the Christians go in but say to the limo driver "Dude, we love you and thanks for the ride, but this is for club members only"

The cop out I get from Christians is "No no no... they can get in if they accept Jesus". But where does that leave the Jews who don't betray their own faith?

Personally it is all crap to me and all god/s are made up by humans. But strictly as a story I find it as repugnant as saying to a black neighbor "Hey, I love you dude, but I am trying to sell my house so could you stay inside yours when I show mine".

This is the problem of all religions, it reflects human ego, not our common existence. There is no such thing as "Chosen people". There is simply one species. What causes the majority to oppress a minority is the same thing that causes an oppressed minority to falsely play victim "chosen people".

Jews were not "chosen" nor Christians or Muslims. There are simply a bunch of credulous humans stuck in their antiquated comic books.

---

Who originally judged the Jews righteous or unrighteous? God did, so what in your mind has changed if the same God is making that same decision?

First, God decided to kill all the evil people, the majority never knowing why they died. Then, he decided to make a law so that everybody would know why he was killing them and try to avoid doing those things, even though he made that virtually impossible. Then he decided to save the human race with a savior.

What I see is a Perfect God trying everything he can to get people to pay attention to him and failing, short of actually doing something useful and beneficial. I mean, it's great that you're saving us from a doom you personally engineered and could entirely avert with no effort, but I have a brain and as such, I'm not satisfied with that.

As an aside, not to derail the thread, but something gives me an idea that you are a Steelers fan? And no, I am not an ABBA fan, whatever gave you that idea.

[Drich]

I'm.......I'm.......I'm.......in....shock.

Did I just see a Christian confirm that righteous Jews go to heaven?

It's in the bible sport. that is why I make the distinction between a Bible based Christians, and a Doctrinally based Christians.

Erm......where the fuck were you when the Jews were being massacred in York, or during the Inquisition, or the Crusades, or

The same place you were.

And whilst we are on the subject - if righteous Jews get to go to heaven anyway - just as they always did - what benefit did Jesus offer them?

According to Christ 'our' lables mean nothing. Calling one's self a Christian does not make you one. Christ ultimately decides who is and who is not a member of the 'body of believers.'
The term 'Christian' simply denotes one who has publically declared his intention to follow the teachings of Christ. This does not mean that that particular person will. This is true for a basic believer all the way to popes.
A good example of this would be judas Iscariot. He declared his intention to follow Christ, but in the end betrayed that oath. So too do those who worship the method of worship/Christianity rather than Christ Himself.

Could you get in being a bit less righteous than you could on your own? Suddenly it seems no great loss to them that they rejected Jesus - he didn't offer anything worthwhile.

Well, if you actually took the time to Read Revelation 7 you would have noted the 12,000 jews from each of the 12 tribes that will be found righteous.. It seems to me they have lost a great number of people.

Hang on.....if Righteous Jews get to go to heaven, what about Righteous Moslems or Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs .....

The same Christ that decides the fate of the Jews and Christians will also decide the fate of the rest of the world.

I would say it is possiable, but if it did happen I would also say that it would be the exception and not the rule. ( would usally say the false religionist who has never heard the 'good news.' would be the one who had the best chance of entering Heaven.) Not as a hero, but as one who bearly escapes the fire.

Because Christ says, No man will come unto the Father but through Him. Not through a specific brand of Christianity.

[Captain Colostomy]

I fucking hate cults, and the drivel their brainwashed followers regurgitate.

Thanks, Drich, for the reminder.

[max-greece]

12000 of each of 12 tribes - 144,000 in total.

What I love is that these numbers come up all over the place. I had a chat years ago with some Jehovah's Witnesses who told me there were only 144,000 places in Heaven (not sure why - could be a parking problem).

Everyone else apparently gets 1,000 years of ecstasy (which is a lot of tablets - had anyone checked out the supply?)

Anyway - those JW's are going to be really pissed off to find out the Jews have been allocated all the seats. Oi Vey!

[Drich]

12000 of each of 12 tribes - 144,000 in total.

What I love is that these numbers come up all over the place. I had a chat years ago with some Jehovah's Witnesses who told me there were only 144,000 places in Heaven (not sure why - could be a parking problem).

Everyone else apparently gets 1,000 years of ecstasy (which is a lot of tablets - had anyone checked out the supply?)

Anyway - those JW's are going to be really pissed off to find out the Jews have been allocated all the seats. Oi Vey!

Well, Revelations clearly says 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel. Unless a specific JW is actually an undercover Jew from a given tribe, then there will be no JWs among that 144,000.

Matter of fact I do not think an JWs EVER have to worry about the parking situation in Heaven.

---

I fucking hate cults, and the drivel their brainwashed followers regurgitate.

Thanks, Drich, for the reminder.

How many captins are there? are you #2 or #3?

[Godscreated]

Righteous Jews used to go to heaven. Now, apparently, because they didn't buy in to the Jesus thing, they don't.

That's a rule change. You can be righteous and reject Jesus or are you going to redefine righteous too, now.

Christianity is nothing but redefining what it means to be righteous. Not that they'll admit it - I fully expect one to come along and tell me I'm wrong.

Not my problem.

You're right, you're wrong. Righteousness has never changed, it comes through belief. God called Abraham righteous because he believed Him, Christians become righteous because we believe John 3:16, we believe what God says. The Jews of old had to believe God and they would do that through their sacrifices, they believed God would forgive them through the sacrifice. However that belief ie. faith will be shown in the way we live our lives, this is the fruit of belief, wanting to live as righteously as we can for God and not ourselves. So nothing has change with righteousness, belief in what God says He will do is what's required, the only thing that's changed is who makes the sacrifice. Acceptance of Christ's sacrifice for us, or to be your own sacrifice by the law, live up to it every dot and tittle and you will be found righteous before God without acceptance of Christ. I can say that no one here will be able to do that because they've broken at the least the dot and tittle.

GC