Reasons for God

[theVOID]

I still fail to see how you have explained how having "Faith" in God makes you be able to care when others don't. Because you just asserted that it matters to you and applies to you personally because you feel that you wouldn't have a reason to care without it... and you also just asserted - it seems - that God is required for "Faith" and faith is required for true morality. And so, the reason why "faith" is required is because God is required and he is required for faith...

But you haven't actually explained how "Faith" is required, how it is given to us by God as a choice to 'have faith' in him and how we somehow would be unable to care without him.

I thought I explained that faith, both in general, as a concept, and in God, enables a person to do more (e.g. suicide bombers, the saints, etc). I want to do more, everything else is meaninglessness, so I seek God. Now I can do more, and I do. This is why I seek/believe in God, so that I am able to do more good.

I didn't say you were incapable of caring, I said you can care with constraints - e.g. survival. For example, give us a random selection of your general goals in life. Be honest.

What is it that you do that makes you think that you are good? How do you live out how much you care about others?

You just sound like you are totally uninspired and unsatisfied by the natural world, i feel sorry for you, you're missing out on a big chunk of reality with your religious escapism.

List of Secular Charities:

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American Civil Liberties Union
The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of constitutional protections and guarantees relating to First Amendment rights, including the freedom to practice religion and the freedom not to have religion rammed down our throats, equal protection, due process, and right to privacy.
Amnesty International
AI’s vision is of a world in which every person enjoys all of the human rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other international human rights standards. In pursuit of this vision, AI’s mission is to undertake research and action focused on preventing and ending grave abuses of the rights to physical and mental integrity, freedom of conscience and expression, and freedom from discrimination, within the context of its work to promote all human rights.
DefCon: Campaign to Defend the Constitution
DefCon is an online grassroots movement combating the growing power of the religious right. It includes a blog on religious freedom issues, action alerts, and in-depth articles on scientific, religious, and legal issues of the day.
Doctors without Borders
Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international independent medical humanitarian organization that delivers emergency aid to people affected by armed conflict, epidemics, natural and man-made disasters, and exclusion from health care in nearly 70 countries.
DonorsChoose.org
a simple way to provide students in need with resources that our public schools often lack.
Kiva.org
lets you connect with and loan money to unique small businesses in the developing world.
Oxfam International
Oxfam International is a confederation of 12 organizations working together with over 3,000 partners in more than 100 countries to find lasting solutions to poverty, suffering and injustice. The Oxfams operate in over 100 countries worldwide working with local partners to alleviate poverty and injustice.
The Nature Conservancy
The Nature Conservancy is a leading international, nonprofit organization dedicated to preserving the diversity of life on Earth. An environmental group that protects natural habitats and the wildlife within them. Focuses on "science-based" initiatives.
Population Connection
Population Connection is the national grassroots population organization that educates young people and advocates progressive action to stabilize world population at a level that can be sustained by Earth's resources. Works against faith-based policies that are supported by the Religious Right.
Rotary/Rotary International
Secular organisation, the world's first service club organisation. Clubs are nonpolitical, nonreligious, and open to all cultures, races, and creeds. Motto is "service above self". Notable project is global Polio eradication.
The SEED foundation
National nonprofit that establishes urban public boarding schools to prepare students from underserved communities for success in college.</p>
S.H.A.R.E.
The Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort or S.H.A.R.E. was developed over twenty years ago for those who wish to contribute to those people afflicted by natural or human disasters without having to use the intermediary of a religious organization. S.H.A.R.E. is a program of the Council for Secular Humanism, which for 29 years has been the leading organization promoting the rights and values of secular humanists in the U.S. and abroad.
The Union of Concerned Scientists
The leading science-based non-profit working for a healthy environment and safer world.
United Nations Children's Fund
UNICEF mobilizes political will and material resources to help countries, particularly developing countries, ensure a "first call for children" and to build their capacity to form appropriate policies and deliver services for children and their families. UNICEF provides emergency and disaster relief.
[edit]Issue-Specific Secularist Organizations

[edit]Anti-Discrimination Support Network (ADSN)
ADSN Project
The Freethought Society of Greater Philadelphia's Anti-Discrimination support network (ADSN) is collecting narratives highlighting instances of bigotry against the nontheist community.
[edit]Pro-choice organizations
Planned Parenthood Federation of America
Provides reproductive health care services, advocates for women's reproductive rights, and offers educational services for women.
NARAL Pro-choice America
Focuses mostly on the social and legal activism for women's abortion rights.
[edit]Womens Health Organizations
EngenderHealth
an international nonprofit organization that has been working for 60 years to make reproductive health services safe, available, and sustainable for women and men worldwide.
Ipas
an international organization that works around the world to increase women's ability to exercise their sexual and reproductive rights, and to reduce abortion-related deaths and injuries.
[edit]Teen Pregnancy Reduction
National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy
Sadly this charity is rated with only 2 stars due to low efficiency. However their goal is highly respectable and needed, to prevent teen pregnancy and unplanned pregnancy among single, young adults.
[edit]HIV/AIDS
Treatment Action Campaign
campaign for treatment for people with HIV and to reduce new HIV infections. Our efforts have resulted in many life-saving interventions, including the implementation of country-wide mother-to-child transmission prevention and antiretroviral treatment programmes.
[edit]U.S. Military
Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers
Challenging the myth that "there are no atheists in foxholes." There certainly are.
[edit]Gay rights
Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation
Dedicated to promoting and ensuring fair, accurate and inclusive representation of people and events in the media as a means of eliminating homophobia and discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation.
Human Rights Campaign
Large organization working for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender equal rights.
Lambda
A national non-profit gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender (GLBT) agency dedicated to reducing homophobia, inequality, hate crimes, and discrimination by encouraging self-acceptance, cooperation, and non-violence.
Lambda Legal
The legal arm of the Lambda organization that protects GLBT civil rights through impact litigation, education and public policy work.
[edit]School vouchers
National Education Association (NEA) on school vouchers
Provides several arguments for the case against private school vouchers.
[edit]Pledge of Allegiance
Restore the Pledge
Support Michael Newdow in his quest to remove the phrase "under God" from the official Pledge of Allegiance, coercively recited by millions of schoolchildren every day.
[edit]Evolution/Creationism in the science classroom
National Center for Science Education
Great resource with current news and resources (including the famous "Project Steve" list!) on defending evolution and science against pseudoscience advocates.
[edit]Boy Scouts of America discrimination against atheists, gays
Scouting For All
Composed of mostly former Boy Scouts, it is working to influence the BSA to include all participating youth members and leaders regardless of religious beliefs or sexual orientation.
[edit]Children in Poor countries
PlanUSA
an organization committed to helping children, their families and communities in 49 developing countries around the world.

[edit]Church/state separation and secularist organizations

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
A national watchdog organization (with local chapters all around the U.S.---find one near you!) dedicated to preserving religious liberty. It is open to theists and nontheists of all kinds, and is headed by a minister with the United Church of Christ (Rev. Barry Lynn) who can be seen often in the national media and news stories centering on church/state separation issues.
American Civil Liberties Union (click on the "Religious Liberty" link)
A favorite target of the Religious Right. The ACLU defends civil liberties on many fronts including church/state separation, personal privacy, and legal protection through due process. Look for a local chapter in your area to join.
People for the American Way
Progressive group that supports secular values in government. PFAW is an activist organization and PAC (political action committee) working to battle such groups as the Christian Coalition. Click the "Religious Freedom" link for action alerts and information.
Freedom from Religion Foundation
Great organization that defends the rights of nontheists in courtrooms, sponsors a fun-filled annual national convention, and publishes the popular "Freethought Today" (magazine written by and for freethinkers).
Godless Americans Political Action Committee
Endorses and supports U.S. political candidates that support secular values in government and the rights of "godless Americans." We will have our "seat at the table" in formulating public policy.
Atheist Alliance
Democratic association of various individual atheists and atheist organizations. It is a great all-around resource for all-things atheist.
Interfaith Alliance
Alliance of leaders of various religions, worldviews, and beliefs that includes Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, agnostics, atheists, et al. It works to promote religious freedom for everyone regardless of religious beliefs as well as civic participation and civility. Nontheists can find theist allies here.
American Atheists
Controversial atheist organization started by the infamous Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Today it fights for the complete separation of church and state, as well as for the rights of atheists in America.
Secular Coalition for America
Vast coalition of secular and freethought organizations (including the Internet Infidels!) dedicated to sending lobbyists to Washington, D.C. to gain support for protecting the rights of nontheist Americans.
Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science
Explores the causes of religious belief, promotes science in public schools, maintains a list of public lecturers, sells pro-secularist books and other media, and facilitates the giving of humanitarian aid to organizations that are completely secular in nature.
[edit]Europe

National Secular Society
Supports secularism in the UK, as well as church-state separation.
Rationalist Association
The Rationalist Association is a focus for rationalist thought and debate in the UK and worldwide. The RA is the UK's leading freethought and rationalist book publisher.
[edit]Australia

Atheist Foundation of Australia, Inc.
Something for our friends Down Under -- lots of good information, book lists, humor, etc.
[edit]Organizations that promote humanism/Atheism

Council for Secular Humanism
Large organization that offers support for secular humanists through activities such as magazine publishing, conducting secular ceremonies (weddings, funerals, etc.), educational courses, and summer camps for kids that teach critical thinking skills and secular ethical values.
Atheists United
Advances the public understanding of atheism, defends the seperation of government from religon and helps to create communites of atheists. Based in Southern California.
American Humanist Association
Promotes the spread of humanism and furthering of the humanist philosophy in the U.S. by working with and/or establishing like-minded organizations.
The Continuum of Humanist Education
Online courses available for humanists in areas such as law, science, ethics, and secular humanist philosophy.
The Institute for Humanist Studies (IHS)
A think-tank that offers news, opinions, information, and humor relating to humanism. It works to spread public awareness and acceptance of humanist principles.
British Humanist Association
The largest provider of humanist ceremonies in England and Wales. Offers services for weddings, funerals, and baby-namings as well as general resources on humanism and support for humanist organizations.
Humanist Association of Canada
Provides secular officiants, information, services, and support for humanists in Canada.
Positive Atheism
Comprehensive resource for positive atheists to learn about atheism, history, philosophy, religious freedom, and responsibility.
Unitarian Universalist Assocation
A popular "church" for atheists, agnostics, deists, very liberal Christians, etc. Check your local yellow pages for one in your community or use this website's handy * Congregation locator.
The Brights
A movement endorsed by several prominent nontheists to adopt a new term ("Brights") with an accompanying philosophy to describe secularists, freethinkers, atheists, naturalists, etc. with the intent of putting forth a positive, and less-stigmatized, perception of ourselves. Many nontheists have encouraged its use, while many others reject it.
The Objectivist Center
A controversial philosophy founded by Ayn Rand that embodies particular principles on various philosophical, political, economic, and religious issues. Objectivists generally are atheists, but atheists are generally not Objectivists.
Skeptic Society
Learn how to live life free of nonsensical beliefs, and develop your own scientific and critical thinking skills. Also publishes a popular monthly magazine, SKEPTIC, which can be found in major bookstores.
Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP)
Investigates extraordinary claims from a scientific and rational perspective. CSICOP also puts out a popular monthly magazine, Skeptical Inquirer, found in major bookstores.
American Ethical Union (AEU)
The American Ethical Union (AEU) describes "Ethical Culture" as a humanistic religious and educational movement inspired by the ideal that the supreme aim of human life is working to create a more humane society.
International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU)
IHEU is the sole world umbrella organisation for humanist, atheist, rationalist, secularist, skeptic, laique, ethical cultural, freethought and similar organisations world-wide.

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*Edit* There you go fr0d0

[fr0d0]

Spam!!!

You couldda used a hide tag VOID!!!

[Edwardo Piet]

I thought I explained that faith, both in general, as a concept, and in God, enables a person to do more (e.g. suicide bombers, the saints, etc).

But what I am asking, is how is it any better if it's in God? How does that make you 'truly' care any more than if you don't have faith at all or put it in something else?

It enables those who have it to 'do more' because it doesn't require justification, they just "have faith", they trust in the unseen and the unknown (it's blind)... it's not something to be argued with (or at least, not very easily!)

I want to do more, everything else is meaninglessness, so I seek God.

Why is life meaningless to you without him?

Now I can do more, and I do.

As you said above, it depends what you put your faith in. It's better to put it in nothing and to have no faith than have it in such a particular way and strong enough that you become a suicide bomber... and why is putting it "in God" good? How does it even 'depend' IOW? How does 'having faith' in anything such as God, ever equate to something good, unless it's simply a placebo simply because you personally, subjectively, believe that you life is meaningless without him?

This is why I seek/believe in God, so that I am able to do more good.

You believe life is meaningful with God, you believe that he enables you to "do more good", right? Now this could easily be a placebo... what makes you think he actually exists and enables you to 'do more good'?

I didn't say you were incapable of caring, I said you can care with constraints - e.g. survival.

But that's what I meant, that isn't truly caring if it's only done for selfish survival reasons now is it? It's not caring unselfishly for others...not truly caring as you've said yourself. My point is that I can genuinely care just as much as someone who has genuine "faith" in "God" can.

For example, give us a random selection of your general goals in life. Be honest.

1. To always care about the truth and never waver from it, to care about honesty and to not repress things or be in denial about things, to avoid self-deception whenever I can. Ultimately to never waver from the importance of the truth to me, and how important I think it is to the world in general (delusion can be a dangerous thing), and to consider evidence an important focus.

2. To care about others a great deal, which is not so much of a goal to reach because it comes naturally, it is more of something to learn through experience and corrected the way I behave to others, and doing what I can to help whilist still looking after and being responsible for myself. I believe empathy is the crucial factor and it leads to things such as sympathy, compassion and generosity.

3. To have long lasting meaningful relationships with others, to help others and to have an overall good time on this planet, along with doing all I can do help others have a good time too.

There is, of course, more... but that's off the top of my head.

I'm not a very materialistic person.

What is it that you do that makes you think that you are good?

Well I care about people genuinely and do what I can to help. I'm not sure how I can judge myself other than by that and by how others react to me.

How do you live out how much you care about others?

I do all that I can to help, whilst at the same time trying to be responsible for myself so I am capable for caring for others, and capable of continuing to maintain my condition so I can continue to do so.

I try to treat myself and others with respect at all times. I believe that there is a difference between personal and IMpersonal matters... and so I try to respect everyone and myself, but at the same time, this does not stop me from taking issue with myself and others and my/their beliefs on an IMpersonal level.

EvF

[Violet]

While it is true that we need to justify our belief in some way... do you mind my asking "Why is 'God' your justification, Ecolox?" I probably will not agree with your reasons... and that is probably because I have a different standard for belief...

But why is 'God' good enough for you? And how can he be so good that he is the answer to everything?

[ecolox]

EvF

Well, all that sounds wonderful. I don't know what to say at this point, except that I would have to know you in real life to have further questions or problems.

[Edwardo Piet]

Why thank you, and fair enough.

EvF

[ecolox]

While it is true that we need to justify our belief in some way... do you mind my asking "Why is 'God' your justification, Ecolox?" I probably will not agree with your reasons... and that is probably because I have a different standard for belief...

But why is 'God' good enough for you? And how can he be so good that he is the answer to everything?

God is the epitome of good? I don't know what you mean specifically.

How does 'having faith' in anything such as God, ever equate to something good, unless it's simply a placebo simply because you personally, subjectively, believe that you life is meaningless without him?

A life meaning that is defined outside the context of eternal life and without ultimate Judgment but around one's self or other people is vain and meaningless. People (and self) are wrong, they are constantly changing, and they don't last. I seek one Standard that doesn't change and that lasts forever...that is good. I don't live for the moment, I live in the moment for eternity.
You may call it a placebo...it's a belief that produces in the real world. However, it's not a tool for my gain, as 'placebo' seems to suggest (as in 'I take a pill so that I feel better'). (side-note: I never take pills in reality, even to feel better. I've found pain to be useful - not to say I whip myself, I don't intentionally injure myself, though I would risk self-injury if good reasons demanded it.)
My belief requires that I become a tool for God's gain. It means that I endure pain without seeking revenge or retribution. I leave the justice I desire for myself in the hands of God, for He is sovereign. Seeking justice for other people - such as defending the weak or helpless - these things are essential.
I have never endured such hardship as when I seek God. But I know that I can learn from that hardship, and I can advance in ways that are otherwise impossible.

[Edwardo Piet]

So how can "faith" make you any more selfless?

how is it 'vain' to do good for other humans and yourself, without doing it for God? There is actually evidence of other humans, unlike God. How is it better to be selfless by having faith in "God" than to just care because you care, and to want to help others, completely irrespective of whether you believe in "God" or not?

How is faith valid in this matter?

EvF

[Violet]

God is the epitome of good? I don't know what you mean specifically.

Perhaps... but why don't I see him that way? I mean to ask why you believe he is the apex of good... why you have faith in him at all?

I don't intend to make you convince me of why you believe... but I would like to hear the reason(s) behind your faith in him (and his goodness).

[ecolox]

So how can "faith" make you any more selfless?

how is it 'vain' to do good for other humans and yourself, without doing it for God? There is actually evidence of other humans, unlike God. How is it better to be selfless by having faith in "God" than to just care because you care, and to want to help others, completely irrespective of whether you believe in "God" or not?

How is faith valid in this matter?

EvF

How are those things you're claiming valid or even possible? What is the motive behind those things? --- e.g. What if you were the lonely, rejected helper of people? Where would your drive come from? "Just care because you care"? That doesn't seem realistic in the least. It sounds like trying to pull yourself up off the ground with your own bootstraps. Jesus was rejected, yet motivated...he had faith.

Your question is how faith in something that is far greater than yourself or God results in greater humility or selflessness? Is that not self-evident?