Reasons for God

[downbeatplumb]

Ecolox/Solarwave

Please define God.

Ta

[solarwave]

Your special pleading astounds me. How fine-tuned would God have to be to create such fine-tuned phyiscal constants? Does he not require explanation and yet they do?! Why the special pleading?!

So what if the laws are fine-tuned, how interesting that may be from a scientific sense - it does nothing for God. He just complicates things further. Adding an unexplained entity into the equation, in this case - a deity: Does not magically solve the problem. If the laws of physics requires an explanation, why doesn't God require one?

EvF

I explained why God isn't fine-tuned. Please explain to me the problem with what I said or tell me in what why God has to have certain qualities that are in just the right range needed to create a fine-tuned universe. I think a simple God (as I believe) can create a fine-tuned universe. God is simple because all His attributes are extremely high (omni something) or compleltely lacking (timeless). They are simple ideas not with certain values that are just right. So God cant be compared to the universe.

Minimalist: Do you know just how fine-tuned the laws of physics have to be to allow life in the universe? All you have to do is look at the range from the strength of gravity to the strong nuclear force and see that there is a wide range of values forces could have had, but they just happen to be just right for life.

Stop the bullshit, Solar. Here you sit on planet earth, and you look around and say "here's life - therefore GOD." If any of a billion variables had not worked out properly we would not be sitting here having this conversation.

That does not imply goddidit the way you seem to think. It implies "shit happens." In all the hundreds of billions of stars there are planets and the odds are that some of them, just like earth, have experienced an evolution of life. It is a question of probability. Of course, the 'happy zone' that you seem so proud of exists around every star but that only applies to life forms like us. We cannot even speculate on how life may have developed outside that zone.

You have an apparent need to feel "special," and your fairy tales fill that need Therefore, keep listening to con man preachers who tell you what you want to hear. You'll he happier that way.

This isn't even my arguement that your arguing against. Im not saying this planet is fine-tuned, but the universe itself is. If there are many universes it destorys my arguement, but if there arn't I think this is something that must be taken seriously. I also hope that you wouldn't rather conclude that the multiverse must exist just to escape God.

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Wow big post ecolox!

downbeatplumb: The christian God. Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, all-loving, good, conscious, timesless, immaterial, just. I may have left some things out but there you go lol.

[downbeatplumb]

Your special pleading astounds me. How fine-tuned would God have to be to create such fine-tuned phyiscal constants? Does he not require explanation and yet they do?! Why the special pleading?!

So what if the laws are fine-tuned, how interesting that may be from a scientific sense - it does nothing for God. He just complicates things further. Adding an unexplained entity into the equation, in this case - a deity: Does not magically solve the problem. If the laws of physics requires an explanation, why doesn't God require one?

EvF

I explained why God isn't fine-tuned. Please explain to me the problem with what I said or tell me in what why God has to have certain qualities that are in just the right range needed to create a fine-tuned universe. I think a simple God (as I believe) can create a fine-tuned universe. God is simple because all His attributes are extremely high (omni something) or compleltely lacking (timeless). They are simple ideas not with certain values that are just right. So God cant be compared to the universe.

Minimalist: Do you know just how fine-tuned the laws of physics have to be to allow life in the universe? All you have to do is look at the range from the strength of gravity to the strong nuclear force and see that there is a wide range of values forces could have had, but they just happen to be just right for life.

Stop the bullshit, Solar. Here you sit on planet earth, and you look around and say "here's life - therefore GOD." If any of a billion variables had not worked out properly we would not be sitting here having this conversation.

That does not imply goddidit the way you seem to think. It implies "shit happens." In all the hundreds of billions of stars there are planets and the odds are that some of them, just like earth, have experienced an evolution of life. It is a question of probability. Of course, the 'happy zone' that you seem so proud of exists around every star but that only applies to life forms like us. We cannot even speculate on how life may have developed outside that zone.

You have an apparent need to feel "special," and your fairy tales fill that need Therefore, keep listening to con man preachers who tell you what you want to hear. You'll he happier that way.

This isn't even my arguement that your arguing against. Im not saying this planet is fine-tuned, but the universe itself is. If there are many universes it destorys my arguement, but if there arn't I think this is something that must be taken seriously. I also hope that you wouldn't rather conclude that the multiverse must exist just to escape God.

---

Wow big post ecolox!

downbeatplumb: The christian God. Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, all-loving, good, conscious, timesless, immaterial, just. I may have left some things out but there you go lol.

So he can do anything, knows everything, is everywhere loves everything is good and exists outside of time.

I see.

[chatpilot]

Disputing christian beliefs with christians is like talking to the wall. Faith does not know logic and reason. Any Christian that says he uses logic and reason to come to the conclusion of God is an insult to both ideologies.

[fr0d0]

The conclusion is illogical so I'd agree with that Chatty. Reason and logic are integral to the belief system though. This is clearly demonstrated.

[chatpilot]

There is no logic in the belief in God.

[Violet]

There actually can be logic in such... it is just extremely hard to justify (and a lot of people simply don't try)

[chatpilot]

Saerules I was a fundamental Christian and now looking from the outside I simply don't see any logic in it. Speculation and assumptions do not count as logic.

[solarwave]

Disputing christian beliefs with christians is like talking to the wall. Faith does not know logic and reason. Any Christian that says he uses logic and reason to come to the conclusion of God is an insult to both ideologies.

If that is directed at me:
I would say the same thing when talking to some atheist. When you bring up a problem I try to answer it and if you are saying it because you think I am repeating myself you dont do any different.

Ok, give me your definition of faith?

Saerules I was a fundamental Christian and now looking from the outside I simply don't see any logic in it. Speculation and assumptions do not count as logic.

And because you once called yourself an christian it now makes you the highest authority on what Christianity really is?

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So he can do anything, knows everything, is everywhere loves everything is good and exists outside of time.

I see.

? lol

[Violet]

Saerules I was a fundamental Christian and now looking from the outside I simply don't see any logic in it. Speculation and assumptions do not count as logic.

Well, there are some Christians like Arcanus that are like lawyers with their defense of Christianity