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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:28 pm
(September 26, 2013 at 11:20 pm)Ivy Wrote: It seems to me that he is doing more than just mentioning it. I'm not in the classroom when he does it, but judging by his little example, he's the kind of teacher I hope my kids get. I mean, it's not too hard to understand what he is getting at with the whole "you tell me" thing he's got going on there.
Good job.
(edit to delete double post)
Perhaps, in that he is attempting to incentivize his students to think for themselves...but you also have to realize that we (should) all look to people of greater knowledge and experience than ourselves unless we feel like reinventing the wheel.
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:29 pm
(September 26, 2013 at 11:10 pm)Airyaman Wrote: (September 26, 2013 at 10:55 pm)Max_Kolbe Wrote: No, what they are asking is, "what grade will this get me." The focus is too much on grades. We do not teach our students to think for themselves. We teach them to value an arbitrary letter in the alphabet that has no value. Knowledge and skill, that's valuable. The way public schools are set up however, we teach kids to value what other people tell them is valuable. I ask that question because I want my students to begin thinking about these things. I do not want them to go along with the crowd. Even if that means that they come to conclusions that are opposite of mine. I want my students to be critical thinkers in a society that does not value critical thinking.
So you have become part of the "we" problem then? Are you doing anything beyond mentioning it on an atheist forum?
Oh, I am absolutely part of the problem. (I'm a human being, after all). What I do to solve the problem, you're probably not interested in hearing about.
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:30 pm
While I can't understand why on earth an atheist would convert to a religion, I won't discard the possibility. It does irritate me when people tell me I'm not really an atheist because a real atheist would... (add something stupid here).
When I was in high school I had a group of friends (five atheists, and I was the only Christian) that I always prayed for, invited to church, etc. They were very polite and never teased me or told me that I wasn't really a Christian due to the fact that the religion was passed on to me by my parents. They respected me. Years went by and one of them fell in love with a Christian girl. All of a sudden he says, "I realized I have been very mean to Jesus. I gave my life to him and I repent." This was beyond ridiculous in my point of view (I was now atheist), but I didn't tell him this. I asked him why he believed and encouraged him to think about what he was saying and how it sounded, but I didn't say, "You are not really a Christian."
Pointing around: "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, fuck you, I'm out!"
Half Baked
"Let the atheists come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of heathens belongs to people like these." -Saint Bacon
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:35 pm
(September 26, 2013 at 11:30 pm)Ivy Wrote: While I can't understand why on earth an atheist would convert to a religion, I won't discard the possibility. It does irritate me when people tell me I'm not really an atheist because a real atheist would... (add something stupid here).
When I was in high school I had a group of friends (five atheists, and I was the only Christian) that I always prayed for, invited to church, etc. They were very polite and never teased me or told me that I wasn't really a Christian due to the fact that the religion was passed on to me by my parents. They respected me. Years went by and one of them fell in love with a Christian girl. All of a sudden he says, "I realized I have been very mean to Jesus. I gave my life to him and I repent." This was beyond ridiculous in my point of view (I was now atheist), but I didn't tell him this. I asked him why he believed and encouraged him to think about what he was saying and how it sounded, but I didn't say, "You are not really a Christian."
Keep in mind, this is a student with whom I have a good rapport. I treat all my students' beliefs and philosophies with respect. I talk to my Mormon students about Doctrine and Covenants (good stories in there) and this year I have a JW student and we share favorite Bible verses. I really enjoy talking to my atheist students because they are so open to considering so many different view points. I even have good conversations with my Republican students.
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:35 pm
Depending on circumstance, a straightforward answer is better than a frustrating round of 'Whaddayou think'. You could make kids reluctant to ask questions.
All depending, though.
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 26, 2013 at 11:43 pm
Captain wrote:
Quote:Depending on circumstance, a straightforward answer is better than a frustrating round of 'Whaddayou think'. You could make kids reluctant to ask questions.
Captain Wanton, I disagree (I still love you, though  ). I think they need this. They need to have challenges in order to practice their thinking skills. Yes, they need a leader and someone to guide them during their education, but not a puppet holder. Having the opportunity to think for themselves is excellent! For example, my son. When he tells me that he believes in a god after all, I ask, "Why do you believe? Give me a reason." I don't tell him that he shouldn't believe. If you are going to teach spelling, then yes. Just teach them and tell them how it's done. However, there are things that require an open field where students can manipulate the object in hand and study it, think about it, reason with it. I think this guy has the right idea.
Then again, you did say "all depending", so fine. I skipped that part lol
Pointing around: "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, fuck you, I'm out!"
Half Baked
"Let the atheists come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of heathens belongs to people like these." -Saint Bacon
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 27, 2013 at 6:05 am
(September 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I'm to be honest, I go to a Christian forum every once in a while to kick the hornets nest a little, however many Christians on there claim to be former atheists. I do not understand how a atheist could covert,as the is full of logical holes and moral atrocities, and the apologetics arguments are full of logical fallacies.
Because they weren't true atheists to begin with.
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 27, 2013 at 6:45 am
(September 27, 2013 at 6:05 am)genkaus Wrote: (September 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I'm to be honest, I go to a Christian forum every once in a while to kick the hornets nest a little, however many Christians on there claim to be former atheists. I do not understand how a atheist could covert,as the is full of logical holes and moral atrocities, and the apologetics arguments are full of logical fallacies.
Because they weren't true atheists to begin with.
What is a "true atheist"?
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 27, 2013 at 6:47 am
(September 27, 2013 at 6:45 am)Airyaman Wrote: (September 27, 2013 at 6:05 am)genkaus Wrote: Because they weren't true atheists to begin with.
What is a "true atheist"?
An atheist with very straight edges.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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RE: I do not understand former atheist's
September 27, 2013 at 7:05 am
(September 26, 2013 at 11:43 pm)Ivy Wrote: Captain Wanton, I disagree (I still love you, though ). I think they need this. They need to have challenges in order to practice their thinking skills. Yes, they need a leader and someone to guide them during their education, but not a puppet holder. Having the opportunity to think for themselves is excellent! For example, my son. When he tells me that he believes in a god after all, I ask, "Why do you believe? Give me a reason." I don't tell him that he shouldn't believe. If you are going to teach spelling, then yes. Just teach them and tell them how it's done. However, there are things that require an open field where students can manipulate the object in hand and study it, think about it, reason with it. I think this guy has the right idea.
Then again, you did say "all depending", so fine. I skipped that part lol
I hear you. Depending on the lesson, though, a factoid cannot be deduced through critical thinking. Either you are aware of the answer, or ignorant of it.
Teacher: "What's the GNP of Upper Volta for fiscal year 1979, inflation adjusted in today's Rubles"?
Student: "I don't know...a shit ton?"
Teacher: "Well, think about it..."
Or something like that.
Questions about philosophy, justice, feelings, etc., are much more available to exercising an individual's critical thinking skills.
Dunno. I just see a potential downside, depending...
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