Mark 16:17-18 - The Words of Jesus?

[freedomfromforum]

Mark 16:17-19

"17)And these signs will accompany those who
believe: In my name they will drive out demons;
they will speak in new tongues; 18)they will pick
op snakes with their hands; and when they
drink deadly poison, it will not harm them at
all; they will place their hands on sick people,
and they will get well."

Jesus supposedly spoke these words to his
disciples following his resurrection. He was
rebuking them because most of them did not
believe the reports of his resurrection which
had been made by Mary Magdalene and others.
He was telling them that their faith should
produce supernatural abilities within them,
and that the measure of their faith was made
by whether or not these signs accompanied
the disciples. The meat of Jesus' message here
was to deny what you can prove or substantiate,
and to have a faith so strong that you could
literally do things that are impossible in the natural
world - like believing that a man was born of a virgin,
died, and was resurrected. Jesus' message here
is to suspend disbelief. He then goes further by
suggesting that if you can think this way that no
harm could come to you. So, what is the effect
of this in today's world? Besides the "snake cult"
christians who practice mumbo-jumbo religion,
this teaching has brought some real consequences
to bear. Allow me to share...


________________________________________________


I used to go hiking with my friend Jack in the hills
near where we live. Jack is an elder at a church I
used to attend when I was a christian. I say I used
to hike with Jack because we no longer hike together.
Jack and I developed a pretty good friendship while
I was at the church, and he and I do still continue to
meet for coffee ect. (though less and less as time
moves on). Recently, on our latest hike together, Jack
and I came across a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake.
These snakes are poisonous and very aggressive.
Jack walked closer to the rattler as I moved away
from the deadly snake. I told Jack to be careful, and that
I didn't think I could carry him to the car if he were bitten.
Jack didn't miss a beat as he said... "I'm not afraid of
this snake. My bible, my god, has told me in his word
that I shall take up deadly serpents and I will not be
harmed. I believe Jesus." I asked Jack what I should
do if he gets bitten - if I should get help? He said that
if I lacked the faith to believe god's word that he didn't
want to go hiking with me ever again, because his
faith was strong, and he didn't want to be tempted
by my weakness. I was dumbfounded. Jack and I
have not hiked together since that time.

__________________________________________________

I wonder if I offered Jack some "deadly poison" to drink
if he'd do it? I know Jack takes prescription medication -
how does this work with faith? For sure, Jack has not
healed every person he's laid his hands on (indeed none).
How do christians reconcile these inconsistencies in their "faith"?

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Mark 16:17-19

"17)And these signs will accompany those who
believe: In my name they will drive out demons;
they will speak in new tongues; 18)they will pick
op snakes with their hands; and when they
drink deadly poison, it will not harm them at
all; they will place their hands on sick people,
and they will get well."

Jesus supposedly spoke these words to his
disciples following his resurrection. He was
rebuking them because most of them did not
believe the reports of his resurrection which
had been made by Mary Magdalene and others.
He was telling them that their faith should
produce supernatural abilities within them,
and that the measure of their faith was made
by whether or not these signs accompanied
the disciples. The meat of Jesus' message here
was to deny what you can prove or substantiate,
and to have a faith so strong that you could
literally do things that are impossible in the natural
world - like believing that a man was born of a virgin,
died, and was resurrected. Jesus' message here
is to suspend disbelief. He then goes further by
suggesting that if you can think this way that no
harm could come to you. So, what is the effect
of this in today's world? Besides the "snake cult"
christians who practice mumbo-jumbo religion,
this teaching has brought some real consequences
to bear. Allow me to share...


________________________________________________


I used to go hiking with my friend Jack in the hills
near where we live. Jack is an elder at a church I
used to attend when I was a christian. I say I used
to hike with Jack because we no longer hike together.
Jack and I developed a pretty good friendship while
I was at the church, and he and I do still continue to
meet for coffee ect. (though less and less as time
moves on). Recently, on our latest hike together, Jack
and I came across a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake.
These snakes are poisonous and very aggressive.
Jack walked closer to the rattler as I moved away
from the deadly snake. I told Jack to be careful, and that
I didn't think I could carry him to the car if he were bitten.
Jack didn't miss a beat as he said... "I'm not afraid of
this snake. My bible, my god, has told me in his word
that I shall take up deadly serpents and I will not be
harmed. I believe Jesus." I asked Jack what I should
do if he gets bitten - if I should get help? He said that
if I lacked the faith to believe god's word that he didn't
want to go hiking with me ever again, because his
faith was strong, and he didn't want to be tempted
by my weakness. I was dumbfounded. Jack and I
have not hiked together since that time.

__________________________________________________

I wonder if I offered Jack some "deadly poison" to drink
if he'd do it? I know Jack takes prescription medication -
how does this work with faith? For sure, Jack has not
healed every person he's laid his hands on (indeed none).
How do christians reconcile these inconsistencies in their "faith"?

Those are signs that were used for the children of Israel to establish the words of the gospel acconuts.

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

That is because the children of Israel were to look for signs.

1 Corinthians 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Once the word was established and the gospel has gone out to all nations, signs are no longer needed.

2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight

[Minimalist]

Jack is an asshole.

BTW, that part of "mark" was added by some unknown scribe at a much later point in time.

So "jack" is not trusting in the words of jesus...or whatever clown wrote "mark" but rather some unnamed scribe who thought the ending at verse 8 needed to be punched up.

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Jack is an asshole.

BTW, that part of "mark" was added by some unknown scribe at a much later point in time.

So "jack" is not trusting in the words of jesus...or whatever clown wrote "mark" but rather some unnamed scribe who thought the ending at verse 8 needed to be punched up.

Actually some scribes tried to remove the last part of Mark 16.

[Minimalist]

You do not know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Beta Ray Bill]

I've heard this said many times: if faith healing was reliable, there would be a faith branch in every hospital. IMO, anyone who believes God will save them because the Bible said so is just fantasizing their existence.

Think of the Black Death from the 14th century. All people had back then was prayer, and millions of people died. Nowadays, we have science to help us, and many diseases of old are no longer a factor. Has science vanquished every disease? Of course not, disease evolves too. But science has done more than arrogant faith ever could.

Faith can give people hope, but it cannot save their lives.

[Airyaman]

Jack is an asshole.

BTW, that part of "mark" was added by some unknown scribe at a much later point in time.

So "jack" is not trusting in the words of jesus...or whatever clown wrote "mark" but rather some unnamed scribe who thought the ending at verse 8 needed to be punched up.

Actually some scribes tried to remove the last part of Mark 16.

Please do yourself a favor and research this one. The present ending of Mark was not in the earliest manuscripts.

[Doubting Thomas]

All I know is that if I'm hiking with someone and they start fucking around with a rattlesnake, they're on their own.

Reminds me of a joke about two guys out hiking, when one decided he had to pee. So he dropped trou and started whizzing away, unknowingly peeing on a rattlesnake which jumped up and bit him on the end of his penis.

"Call 911! Get help!" the guy cried.

His companion called 911 asking for help, and the 911 dispatcher said, "You need to suck the poison out of the wound."

The guy turned to his snake-bitten friend and said, "They say you're going to die."

[Minimalist]

Actually some scribes tried to remove the last part of Mark 16.

Please do yourself a favor and research this one. The present ending of Mark was not in the earliest manuscripts.

Some let us say, more honest, translations make reference to that fact.

8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[a]

[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV


Or,

8 Overcome with terror and dread, they fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[b]

Endings Added Later

[9 They promptly reported all of the young man’s instructions to those who were with Peter. Afterward, through the work of his disciples, Jesus sent out, from the east to the west, the sacred and undying message of eternal salvation. Amen. ]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=CEB


Or,

8 The women were confused and shaking with fear, so they left the tomb and ran away. They did not tell anyone about what happened, because they were afraid.

Verses 9–20 are not included in some of the earliest surviving Greek copies of Mark.

Some Followers See Jesus

[9 After Jesus rose from the dead early on the first day of the week, he showed himself first to Mary Magdalene.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NCV


I realize xtians do not cherish honesty.

[Cyberman]

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

Was that the bit when he opened the window and appeared naked to a thousand followers? Then his mother burst in and said he was "a very naughty boy"? I get these things mixed up, you see.

Because if it is, we all know what "out of whom he had driven seven demons" means (fnarr fnarr).