And Hells come back to haunt me

[Tonus]

Christ came for the wicked, not the righteous. Ears open by faith. Ears are seeds of grain. The seed is God's part and it is here. Soil is needed.

That didn't answer the question. A clear and unambiguous message would be far better than the barely-coherent mess you get in many ancient religious texts. At the least, it would avoid the endless battles over interpretation that split devout religious people into tens of thousands of different denominations, sometimes over fairly minor details.

[Cyberman]

Ears open by faith. Ears are seeds of grain. The seed is God's part and it is here. Soil is needed.

Well, at least we're okay for horseshit.

[Brakeman]

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes? Why would god not make his word perfectly plain and clear?

Did you teach your children in riddles and mystic symbols and then punish then with death if they don't understand and obey? No? Well why would anything but a most evil god do differently.

Christ came for the wicked, not the righteous. Ears open by faith. Ears are seeds of grain. The seed is God's part and it is here. Soil is needed.

That's a dishonest dodge! You only become classified as wicked or righteous upon being measured against god's rules. Without god's rules being conveyed, you can't be either.

Do you consider a severely mentally retarded person to be wicked or righteous?

[StrongWaters]

Christ came for the wicked, not the righteous. Ears open by faith. Ears are seeds of grain. The seed is God's part and it is here. Soil is needed.

That didn't answer the question. A clear and unambiguous message would be far better than the barely-coherent mess you get in many ancient religious texts. At the least, it would avoid the endless battles over interpretation that split devout religious people into tens of thousands of different denominations, sometimes over fairly minor details.

I went back four pages and could not find the question. Ask again and I would be glad to answer with no scripture this time.

---

Christ came for the wicked, not the righteous. Ears open by faith. Ears are seeds of grain. The seed is God's part and it is here. Soil is needed.

That's a dishonest dodge! You only become classified as wicked or righteous upon being measured against god's rules. Without god's rules being conveyed, you can't be either.

Do you consider a severely mentally retarded person to be wicked or righteous?

I am not the judge. I have my own ideas, but wickedness comes in many forms. Self-righteousness is wickedness. Many Atheists and Christians alike are self-righteous. You might even call me self-righteous, but this would be inaccurate. I am a sinner just like everyone on Earth. The defining factor is not our own ability to be Savior, but rather, on our faith in the only ONE who is. God sees us as righteous and justified if He sees His son in us. What is the cornerstone of that image? Giving.

I would challenge you to read the replies of this thread here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-22522.html

When you are finished, go back and read the OP itself. You may be surprised in what it says about your own worth to God.

Gospel of Philip

When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father.

If I can wake you up a bit, you will see the time on the clock and remember who you are. It takes an unbalanced force to shake you a bit. The same was done for me years ago.

God Bless

[Tonus]

I went back four pages and could not find the question. Ask again and I would be glad to answer with no scripture this time.

It was in the post you were responding to:

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes? Why would god not make his word perfectly plain and clear?

Did you teach your children in riddles and mystic symbols and then punish then with death if they don't understand and obey? No? Well why would anything but a most evil god do differently.

[StrongWaters]

I went back four pages and could not find the question. Ask again and I would be glad to answer with no scripture this time.

It was in the post you were responding to:

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes? Why would god not make his word perfectly plain and clear?

Did you teach your children in riddles and mystic symbols and then punish then with death if they don't understand and obey? No? Well why would anything but a most evil god do differently.

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes?

---It's a treasure. The slave is the one who opens the pegmatite in the mine. The King is the one who sends him to the labor. In Hebrew culture, the Guardian was assigned to the land owner's Son to oversee him working the land. It was a way to teach the son through hard labor. When the Son comes of age, he is the new land owner, read to oversee the entire property.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Law is your Guardian here, like I am doing for you. It requires toil for food (Knowledge). I have already toiled. I am trying to show you how to work in the field. Bearing fruit is the point for the good of the family overall.

Why would god not make his word perfectly plain and clear?

--- It is clear if you are a son working the field. Some sons refuse the labor. To busy I guess.

Did you teach your children in riddles and mystic symbols and then punish then with death if they don't understand and obey?

---I train them up in the way that they should go. Later, they will not depart from it. When my oldest was 4, I taught him to read. When he could read, I had him read Confucius sayings at bedtime. I had him tell me what they meant. Most times, he was off. Many times, he showed me aspects I had not seen myself. When he entered school, he could already think abstract. He has a 34 on the ACT and a full scholarship to the top engineering school in the nation. It will cost me $0.

No? Yes.

Well why would anything but a most evil god do differently.

I pattern my own fatherly love after the one I have have above. It's a good plan.

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.”
― Confucius

Experience is the key. Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I DO and I understand."

That was one of the first quotes I asked my sons to help me understand. From there, I engaged this into practice with them both. I have taught them that suffering for the good of others is the only way to DO.

James 1

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Experience is only bitter until you decide to change what you see. The perfect law gives freedom. Do unto others. DO. Give.

Until then, Hell comes back to haunt you. What you do not master masters you.

On Topic.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Oh would you look at that! Yet more vacuous statements from the religous.

Why not change it to:

"God is only real until you decide to change what you see"

Or how about:

"The bible is only a lie until you decide to change what truth is"

Now you probably won't understand what I'm saying, at best you'll probably ignore it and instead reply with more facile crap and so I'll leave you with something a bit more on your wavelength:


Mem means Waters and Chaos. The universe is ever changing, fluid. We are the fish that swim in its depths.

Matthew 4:19
And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.”

You are the fisher and your message is the net. When the net is secure, none may slip through. Your net is vast, but it has only one hole. The hole is too big, your net is a circle and you will catch no fish - the fish see right through and swim on regardless.

These are your words and the value contained within


Aleph (Strength), not what you think. You posts are not strength, the second represents the Ox, the first is the Bull.

Your words are absolute BullOx

[Tonus]

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes?

---It's a treasure. The slave is the one who opens the pegmatite in the mine. The King is the one who sends him to the labor. In Hebrew culture, the Guardian was assigned to the land owner's Son to oversee him working the land. It was a way to teach the son through hard labor. When the Son comes of age, he is the new land owner, read to oversee the entire property.

There is a difference between asking someone to do the hard work necessary to see the results they desire, and asking them to figure out the correct interpretation of a set of laws (and rules and standards and morals, that no one has been able to clearly interpret for centuries) in order to follow them even when his heart is set on pleasing god. It's not only cruel, it's inefficient and works contrary to the ideals of a being who wishes for everyone to be saved.

The effort in pleasing god should not from trying to figure out which of the myriad interpretations are the correct ones; the Bible makes clear that even when you know what to do, and even when the commands come directly from god, some people will fail to serve him. Making it even more difficult to do so in such an underhanded manner makes no sense at all.

[StrongWaters]

Why do you have to ask for god to open eyes?

---It's a treasure. The slave is the one who opens the pegmatite in the mine. The King is the one who sends him to the labor. In Hebrew culture, the Guardian was assigned to the land owner's Son to oversee him working the land. It was a way to teach the son through hard labor. When the Son comes of age, he is the new land owner, read to oversee the entire property.

There is a difference between asking someone to do the hard work necessary to see the results they desire, and asking them to figure out the correct interpretation of a set of laws (and rules and standards and morals, that no one has been able to clearly interpret for centuries) in order to follow them even when his heart is set on pleasing god. It's not only cruel, it's inefficient and works contrary to the ideals of a being who wishes for everyone to be saved.

The effort in pleasing god should not from trying to figure out which of the myriad interpretations are the correct ones; the Bible makes clear that even when you know what to do, and even when the commands come directly from god, some people will fail to serve him. Making it even more difficult to do so in such an underhanded manner makes no sense at all.

It doesn't happen often, but I agree with you. Communication is the response you get, which is somewhat lost in transliteration. Where I agree with you from the outer man, the inner man now knows the reason for this. Doing is the communication, not knowing. We are already known by God. Doing allows Him to reveal who we are by his eyes. This is the process of light revealing what it hits. Don't confuse temporal experience for ultimate revelation.

You look in a mirror and instantly see yourself. God holds up a different mirror called reality and shows you a vastly different image. It takes thousands of years and many lifetimes to get, but you will eventually see it. I am simply a glimmer off the edge helping you wake to the fact that you hold the key in your hand to the jail cell door.

You are focused on God. Focus on yourself first, then God becomes visible. He's been there all along.

[snowtracks]

the main thing is make sure you don't end up there when it's all said and done.