Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
October 21, 2013 at 4:37 pm (This post was last modified: October 21, 2013 at 4:38 pm by Cinjin.)
(October 21, 2013 at 12:48 pm)Drich Wrote:
(October 21, 2013 at 12:12 pm)Cinjin Wrote: First of all, you WERE doing so well with the spelling. Your posts were nearly perfectly readable there for awhile. What happened?
different computer. the Ipad has auto correct.
Quote:Secondly, the lifelong imprisonment response is the first good argument I've ever seen come from your fingertips. I disagree of course, but good job none the less.
Thirdly, and the real reason your post caught my eye:
Just to elaborate: If we can imprision someone for a single finite crime, committed against another person then why is God prohibited for doing the same?
Quote:This is an example of why you have this reputation:
It is completely reasonable to make a logical conclusion based on the facts presented by your bible: By your own admission, your god allows for a creation that is NOT remotely perfect ("a copy of a copy of a copy").
Now finish this thought with the bible as your guide. Because we are flawed Christ died on our behalf so we do not have to. all we must do is accept what He has done in our stead.
Quote:Therefore, this being is mortal and finite.
But we are not. This phase of our existance is finite, but 'we' have the potential of being infinite. hence the need for a life sentence. (for however long 'life' happens to be.)
Quote: Being a finite creature, it is not possible for this being to re-create infinitely. Meaning, the sins that are committed are not committed for all time. (The man's car I stole or even the woman I raped are not suffering these sins in the next life.)
and what of those who we give 10 or 20 life sentences? In reality one life sentence says that no mater how long you live you will be imprisioned. the idea here is that a ted bundy or a chuck mansion has done something so evil that we are trying to communicate that if they lived 20 life times they could not be imprisioned long enough to pay for what they did in the short/finite amount of time they lived outside of jail.
The same can be said here. The 'life in Hell' sentence only seems unjust because we have trivialized our 'sins' with our relitive morality. Much like Mansion or Bundy has done. But, even so when compared to an absolute standard (The law) their excuses or personal justifications meant nothing. Because the ones in authority were in a position to levy a judgement to take away their personal freedom for the rest of their existance.
Quote: More so, a perfect god would be free of malicious vendettas against peons who sinned during a finite life.
again how do you know that your sins do not echo out through eternity? Meaning how do you know the crap you will not repent of here in this life will not carry over into the next? Meaning if you were a ted bundy who killed and ate people, and you served a life sentence, died and was brought back or died and better yet was resurrected, you would not continue to 'feed' on people in the next life? How is turning an unrepentant sinner like a hitler or a ted bundy type loose on the population of Heaven a righteous act?
Quote:In fact, regardless of how great those sins may have seemed during that lifetime, they would not even register as a blip on the meter of billions of human lives on the eternal plain of existence.
You and the OP are missing the point. We are slaves to sin. Meaning we can not help but to sin. Christ said a slave can not have two masters. "He will love the one and hate the other." If we do not rebuke and turn from our master of sin, then for all of eternity we will resent and hate God, and all of those who follow and love God. So again, 'we' are not ALL His Children. if we are not all his Children then why would God be looking out for the intrest of those who hate Him and those who are in His care? If he were to do this it would be to the determent to all of those who gave given themselves to Him. In other words God would be looking out for the intrest ofsomeone elses children over His Own.
How is this a 'righteous' act? to foresake your kids eternal future for the benfit of a stranger's children?
Your entire premise in this argument is one that you have tried to shoot down when the atheists have used it in reverse.
More than once you've taken this stance with atheists: "You're holding god accountable to human standards of justice and punishment and that cannot apply because he is God. His standards are set higher." I would think that nearly any regular member can vouch for me on this. You've said that we (the non-believers) cannot use human justice to account for god's justice, but NOW you want us to use human justice (the prison system) to justify eternal damnation. Sorry you can't have it both ways.
Additionally, there is also a major flaw in your logic:
You Wrote:This phase of our existance is finite, but 'we' have the potential of being infinite. hence the need for a life sentence. (for however long 'life' happens to be.)
Eternal reward and eternal punishment should be mutually exclusive. One does not necessitate the other. Just because there's supposed potential of eternal life doesn't mean you should have to be tortured eternally just because you didn't get it. This bears even more weight when you realize that the bible even brags about the fact that the great majority of people are burning in hell and are not getting the big prize in the sky.
Sorry but sin is just a word to the non believer. The concept is not real
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Yea, i didn't ask for a definition. I know what sin means.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
October 21, 2013 at 5:35 pm (This post was last modified: October 21, 2013 at 5:36 pm by Cinjin.)
(October 21, 2013 at 5:31 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: Sin just your flaws as a human, the mistakes you make in life, tendency to harm yourself/others and so on.
Otherwise known as the general actions taken whilst being alive.
I see "sin" as the stuff god tells you not to do. It does not have to be an issue of right or wrong, or of flaws or mistakes, or of harm done to others. If I covet a possession of my neighbor, I have sinned. If I have lustful thoughts towards a woman who is not my wife, I have sinned. Before Jesus arrived on Earth, I could have killed a man who worked on the Sabbath and not have sinned. I could have worn a garment of mixed fabrics and committed a sin. I could have followed the command to massacre my conquered foes and take one of their virgin girls as a wife and not have sinned. I could have refused to have sex with my dead brother's widow and committed a sin.
Sin, like Biblical morality, is whatever god says it is. No action is intrinsically good or evil, save apparently for "blaspheming against the holy spirit." Sin, like Biblical morality, is what god says it is at any given time, and subject to change.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."