The Problem with the Gospels

[chatpilot]

That is a good point Minimalist aside from Paul there are alot of fictitious characters in the bible. In my opinion Jesus Christ is one of them too.

[Minimalist]

I agree with you C/P. Like every other 'god' humanity has dreamt up.

[chatpilot]

I think that the only reason Christianity has pulled ahead of the pack is not because of its so called universal truth, but rather its collusion with the Roman Empire. Once Constantine accepted Christianity and gave it all the political and judicial power of the government it became a powerful theocracy.

[Minimalist]

The gospel of Mark is believed to have made its appearance in about 70 AD

I was gazing back at the earlier posts and noted this comment, C/P. While true that "Mark" is believed to date from 70AD that is mainly because he recounts the destruction of the temple which Titus attained in 70. However, it was not true that no stone was left standing. As a matter of fact in the aftermath of the war the Legion X made its camp at Jerusalem and, like every other legionary camp in the empire, a veritable cottage industry of support/service businesses (taverns, traders, whorehouses) sprang up to support it.

The leveling of Jerusalem comes when Hadrian decided to rebuild the site into the new city of Aelia Capitolina in 135. The rubble was pushed down and tamped and the new city built on top of it. Thus, Mark 13

1: And as he came out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher, what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" 2: And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down."

does describe a historical reality but it a reality that did not come to be until c 140 AD.

Just a little historical curiosity.

[chatpilot]

Great research there minimalist. That is what I love about this site I learn something new just about every day.

[Minimalist]

Josephus The Jewish War Book VII, Chapter 1

Book VII
CONTAINING THE INTERVAL OF ABOUT THREE YEARS.

FROM THE TAKING OF JERUSALEM BY TITUS TO THE SEDITION AT CYRENE

CHAPTER 1.
HOW THE ENTIRE CITY OF JERUSALEM WAS DEMOLISHED, EXCEPTING THREE TOWERS; AND HOW TITUS COMMENDED HIS SOLDIERS IN A SPEECH MADE TO THEM, AND DISTRIBUTED REWARDS TO THEM AND THEN DISMISSED MANY OF THEM.

1. NOW as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind. (1)

[AngelaRachnid]

The leveling of Jerusalem comes when Hadrian decided to rebuild the site into the new city of Aelia Capitolina in 135. The rubble was pushed down and tamped and the new city built on top of it. Thus, Mark 13

Hadrian also used some of the stone to build a wall to stop the English infesting Scotland (joke)

A

[Minimalist]

LOL. Good one, Angie.

[Eilonnwy]

I though for sure one of our resident theists would challenge something in my post for indepth discussion. Unless I missed something, what happened? Come on guys!

[chatpilot]

minimalist that prophecy of the destruction of the temple did not entirely come true as you have pointed out. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD but as you illustrated it was not completely destroyed till around 135.

I don't give too much credibility to biblical prophecy since alot of it is believed to have been written after the events they described. That makes it a recounting of previous events than prophecy, and not to mention the fact that prophecy has always been interpreted by trying to find parallels in whatever era you happen to be living in. Historians have done the same with Nostradamus and so I generally don't waste my time with prophecies.

Jesus biggest prophecy failed miserably and it still amazes me how people are waiting for him to return 2000 plus years later. I guess that hope is eternal no matter how ridiculous that hope is.