Yahweh, the Devil, and Job

[Dionysius]

They are amusing. I witnessed it first hand on this very topic as a close inspection of the texts proves that God (himself ?) is the antagonist and satan is merely the goto guy to get the dirty deeds done.

Can you support this?

In Job 1:8 after God noticing satan's apparent idleness asked him if he had considered his servant Job, delineating his noteworthy attributes. Satan goes on to insinuate that he has noticed Job but if were not for the hedge of protection that God had placed about him he likely would have already set upon him. So God does the unthinkable, he removes his protection from Job allowing satan to have at him.

[ronedee]

Well....as far as I know, and by the Bible's own admission, God's hand wrote the Ten Commandments. All else is suspect....including anti-theist comments and their interpretations of scripture!

I have a brother with the same point of view. Although I don't believe the 10 Commandments were written by God either, I think this is a fair point for someone who does.

I will always feel that the OT Bible was inspired by God. But that's all I really know.

Jesus' words and NT have always intrigued me. I have always been compelled to believe everything He said. Everything else? Well, not so much. At least not wholesale belief.

It's not disrespect. Just normal human reaction to "strories".

So, I took what Jesus says: "Look within." ... and went on from there! It works for me!

[themonkeyman]

The story of Job [according to NAB] is, "exquisite, dramatic, didactic poem". Writer unknown."

Personally, I don't like reading Job often. Although interesting, and entertaining its too dramatic even by OT standards.

The Lord would never put someone with Jobs' faith through such a trial. Never mind making a deal with the Devil.

Wow - With Jesus he had him murdred on a Cross, Heck even the Devil tried to tempt Jesus. Didnt Jesus have faith?

With John he was nailed to a cross upside down.

[John V]

In Job 1:8 after God noticing satan's apparent idleness asked him if he had considered his servant Job, delineating his noteworthy attributes. Satan goes on to insinuate that he has noticed Job but if were not for the hedge of protection that God had placed about him he likely would have already set upon him. So God does the unthinkable, he removes his protection from Job allowing satan to have at him.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with your conclusion. As you note yourself, God praises Job, while Satan makes charges against him. God removes the hedge about him, but it's Satan who attacks. Satan is the antagonist.

[themonkeyman]

In Job 1:8 after God noticing satan's apparent idleness asked him if he had considered his servant Job, delineating his noteworthy attributes. Satan goes on to insinuate that he has noticed Job but if were not for the hedge of protection that God had placed about him he likely would have already set upon him. So God does the unthinkable, he removes his protection from Job allowing satan to have at him.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with your conclusion. As you note yourself, God praises Job, while Satan makes charges against him. God removes the hedge about him, but it's Satan who attacks. Satan is the antagonist.

That may be but where the Fuck did Satan come from when God created the world perfect.

Also if God loved his creation - E.g. he supposidly sent Jesus (Himself) --- A point that Jews and Muslims deny to save them - Then why the heck wager anything with Satan and why not obliterate him.

If your book of Revelation says that satan is going to goto the Pit in the end then what sick pleasure does God get letting him poison everything first.

[ronedee]

Wow - With Jesus he had him murdred on a Cross, Heck even the Devil tried to tempt Jesus. Didnt Jesus have faith?

With John he was nailed to a cross upside down.

Nice try cheeta ...Peter was hung upside-down. To make cidar you need apples in your basket...NOT Bananas.

[Dionysius]

In Job 1:8 after God noticing satan's apparent idleness asked him if he had considered his servant Job, delineating his noteworthy attributes. Satan goes on to insinuate that he has noticed Job but if were not for the hedge of protection that God had placed about him he likely would have already set upon him. So God does the unthinkable, he removes his protection from Job allowing satan to have at him.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with your conclusion. As you note yourself, God praises Job, while Satan makes charges against him. God removes the hedge about him, but it's Satan who attacks. Satan is the antagonist.

Of course you're gonna have to disagree because your theological model can't contend with the facts of the Book.


To reiterate, make sure you comprehend this very important point: God acts first by removing his protection from Job? Why would God, pray tell do such a thing? So that Satan could attack him.


Ergo, God put forth his hand to harm Job intentionally. There is no way you or any other apologist can worm their way around this textual fact. Please note: it was not Satan's idea to persecute poor old Job! God brought up the subject!

[Faith No More]

Well....as far as I know, and by the Bible's own admission, God's hand wrote the Ten Commandments. All else is suspect....including anti-theist comments and their interpretations of scripture!

If god didn't do such things to Job, why would he allow the story to end up in his holy manual?

That said, the Holy Spirit is the real Teacher. Like a "workers manual", the Holy Bible is a working guide. But nothing compares to being taught, and experiencing first hand the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

Writings only take us so far. And to base EVERYTHING on what men (in any situation) tell us? Is...well... foolish! Oui?

God is a living God. He doesn't reside in a book!

Ah, yes. The great Christian cop-out. I know, because there is an invisible entity guiding me to the truth. And how do I know that? Because the book that the invisible entity said is true told me so.

Things get really interesting when you point out that there are numerous people out there following the same supposed entity that have come to drastically different conclusions from your own.

[ronedee]

Ah, yes. The great Christian cop-out. I know, because there is an invisible entity guiding me to the truth. And how do I know that? Because the book that the invisible entity said is true told me so.

Things get really interesting when you point out that there are numerous people out there following the same supposed entity that have come to drastically different conclusions from your own.

LOL! Isn't this "the atheist argument"? "Invisible Sky Daddy"!

So, does it really matter what I say? Or anyone who "believes" for that matter?

I gave you my opinion, and personal insight to my belief..... and you give me what? More of the same...

Because you have no answer for the Holy Spirit! How could you? You haven't a clue how: He works, what He does, or where to look for Him.

When I look around here (metaphorically) all I see is a bunch of people with white canes and big, ugly dark glasses bumping into each other and cursing the darkness.....

And all you have to do is take off those big, ugly dark glasses!

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

Not true. We evolve better nightvision.