The attempts of the atheists are only grotesque

[Crossless2.0]

"It is still as strong and living even in the souls of atheists, who have destroyed everything! For even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old. When it has been attempted, the result has been only grotesque."

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Dear Brokeback -- er, I mean DOS -- ever hear of Socrates? Epictetus? Marcus Aurelius? Any of them would be preferable to your false prophet Jesus or that reprehensible spiritual cripple Paul.

[DOS]

"Peacefully DOS will die, peacefully DOS will expire in Thy name, and beyond the grave DOS will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for DOS's happiness we shall allure DOS with the reward of heaven and eternity.”

- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

You need to carefully read the whole thing of The Grand Inquisitor to understand what Dostoevsky meant.

[Angrboda]

"Peacefully DOS will die, peacefully DOS will expire in Thy name, and beyond the grave DOS will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for DOS's happiness we shall allure DOS with the reward of heaven and eternity.”

- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

You need to carefully read the whole thing of The Grand Inquisitor to understand what Dostoevsky meant.

Oh, so now the context matters.


Jerkoff.

[TaraJo]

Y'know, DOS, at best, seems to be making an appeal to authority. Specificall, he's claiming he's right because he's quoting a long since dead philosopher.

The obvious problem with that is, philosophers can be wrong, too.

Pay attention to the quote I'm going to provide here. It may come from a religious figure, but it's a quote that still makes sense (it's part of why atheists seem to be less hostile towards Buddhism than they are most religions). In fact, I like the quote so much I put a variation of it in my signature.

"Believe nothing,
No matter where you read it,
Or who has said it,
Not even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense."

~ Siddhartha Gautama (aka the Buddha)

[Simon Moon]

"Remember, young man, unceasingly, that the science of this world, which has become a great power, has, especially in the last century, analysed everything divine handed down to us in the holy books. After this cruel analysis the learned of this world have nothing left of all that was sacred of old. But they have only analysed the parts and overlooked the whole, and indeed their blindness is marvellous. Yet the whole still stands steadfast before their eyes, and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it. Has it not lasted nineteen centuries, is it not still a living, a moving power in the individual soul and in the masses of people? It is still as strong and living even in the souls of atheists, who have destroyed everything! For even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old. When it has been attempted, the result has been only grotesque."

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky

Yawn....

Argument from authority.

Lets count the fallacies:

1. "Has it not lasted nineteen centuries" - Argumentum ad populum

2. "is it not still a living, a moving power in the individual soul and in the masses of people" - Appeal to emotion

3. "It is still as strong and living even in the souls of atheists" - Question begging

4. "For even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old" - Cherry picking.

Ephesians 6:5 - Slaves obey your masters.

Yeah, some high ideals alright

[Tonus]

This one might be somewhat more apropos:

“If God wants something from me, he would tell me. He wouldn't leave someone else to do this, as if an infinite being were short on time. And he would certainly not leave fallible, sinful humans to deliver an endless plethora of confused and contradictory messages. God would deliver the message himself, directly, to each and every one of us, and with such clarity as the most brilliant being in the universe could accomplish. We would all hear him out and shout "Eureka!" So obvious and well-demonstrated would his message be. It would be spoken to each of us in exactly those terms we would understand. And we would all agree on what that message was.”

― Richard Carrier

[freedomfromforum]

I find it interesting that even people who don't believe in a God, mostly all believe similarly that if said God exists, it should not only be competent, but also supreme. I suggest, that if a God exists, it is no more 'supreme' than myself, or any of my fellow human counterparts, and should not be assigned attributes for which it has not displayed competency.

[DOS]

Y'know, DOS, at best, seems to be making an appeal to authority. Specificall, he's claiming he's right because he's quoting a long since dead philosopher.

The obvious problem with that is, philosophers can be wrong, too.

Pay attention to the quote I'm going to provide here. It may come from a religious figure, but it's a quote that still makes sense (it's part of why atheists seem to be less hostile towards Buddhism than they are most religions). In fact, I like the quote so much I put a variation of it in my signature.

"Believe nothing,
No matter where you read it,
Or who has said it,
Not even if I have said it,
Unless it agrees with your own reason
And your own common sense."

~ Siddhartha Gautama (aka the Buddha)

There are lots of criminals who would easily slaughter you because it agrees with their own reasons (money, stupid bitch, big mouth etc) and their common sense even though it's being written down on paper that it's a violation of the law.

[Tonus]

Then it's a good thing the Bible never records the nation of god slaughtering masses of people and plundering their goods (and their virgin girls). I wonder if those actions ever "agreed with their reasons," or if they did it because disobeying the powerful god that told them to kill and plunder would have had disastrous consequences for them.

[Faith No More]

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

-Douglas Adams