Alqaeda is a U.S., Saudi and Israeli backed organization.

[Creed of Heresy]

My Gosh but there is some utter nonsense being spoken.
...
6) Western leftists.

Western leftists hate Israel mainly because Israel is an ally of the USA. When Israel was supported by the USSR they backed Israel. Western leftists pretend that Israel is amongst the worlds worst human rights abusers. Any rational inquiry demonstates that it isn't so. Western leftists will support any Anti Western Muslim group -even ones that hate each other. Oddly they donl;t support Socialists'left liberals in Muslim countries who otherwise beleive the same thiongs they do,

You're full of hog shit. I have no problem with Israel, and I am "western leftist." Your generalizations for something that is much more complicated than your bullshit dumbdowning would suggest. Nice job stereotyping.

AQ is not actually that interested in the US. The 9/11 attacks were meant to get the USA to attack Afghanistan and outrage the Muslim world and then attack Iraq and destablise it. The first was entirely successful. The second was a disaster because it enabled the people they really hate -shias to take over Iraq.

Riiiiiight, and Osama bin Laden denouncing the US establishment of bases in Saudi Arabia and calling for them to leave (even though they were, you know, attacking Iraqi forces and bombing Iraq and raiding Iraqi facilities from those bases), the establishment of whose bases already outraged the more radical muslim world, and oh you forgot a dozen other attacks they made against US interests or soldiers.

1992: Yemen Hotel Bombing; two hotels were US troops had been staying at were bombed by al-Qaeda terrorists.

1993: WTC bombing, 6 killed, a thousand wounded.

1994: Plot by al-Qaeda operatives to blow up several airplanes carrying US passengers over the Pacific; tested on Philippines Flight 434. Later plot foiled because of an apartment fire that resulted in the operation being exposed due to firefighters locating the explosive residue when investigating for cause of fire.

1995: Saudi National Guard Training Facility bombed, 5 Americans killed and 2 Indians killed.

1998: US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tarzania. 200 killed.

1999-2000: Al-Qaeda plots to kill US tourists and Israeli tourists as well in Jordan foiled by Jordan's government. Plot to bomb LAX foiled at US-Canadian border. Plot to bomb USS The Sullivans foiled due to the boat that was supposed to get to the ship being overweighted with explosives and sinking. USS Cole bombed.

SO what were those, huh? Do tell me. Given that none of those were directed against the US in ways that would incite an invasion of Afghanistan to piss off muslims to make us attack Iraq-

Your entire idea is stupid and you should feel stupid for spewing this bullshit.

AQ and the US are NOT diametrically opposed.

Read above.

They were on the same side against Ghaddaffi (and then the salafis attacked the US at Benghazi) and the US and AQ are on the same side against Syria

No. No they were not, and are not, and you have nothing to back this up. Shut the fuck up with your stupid conspiracy theory bullshit, armchair warrior.

BUT I think there are a lot of people who think that the USA/UK are on the wrong side whioch is why they have pulled out of interaction in Syria.

They've never HAD interaction with Syria, you unbelievably stupid nutbag! Syria and the US have, at BEST, animosity, and they have for decades.

Contrary to shit being doled out by idiots the USA never supported the Taliban OR AQ. They supported Anti Taliban Mujahids.

So, we're supporting aQ, but we never supported aQ?

Your opinion is suffering from severe intellectual-bipolar disorder.

As I said before. The less someone knows, the more opinion they have. And you? You are FULL of opinions on this topic.

Learn. Read. Study. And get your head out of your ass.

---

---

Imagine there was a country that decided to persecute Southern Baptists and that you lived there. Imagine further that they went off birth records so you're denials meant nothing. To them the fact that you were born Southern Baptist meant you were Southern Baptist and therefore to be persecuted.

Jews don't have to imagine that - it has happened. Judging by the politico-economic climate in parts of Europe, it may well be about to happen again.

"Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?"

Apparently its simply not my choice.

Get it now?

Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.

The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.

AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.

not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.

---

The same year they stopped funding other terrorist groups and joined the war on terror?

What's your point, man?

Hello Nora
What year was that? The west Including the U.S. A couple of years ago directly assisted self admitted Alqaeda affiliates in toppling and overthrowing gaddafi in Libya. NATO became the air force for the ground Alqaeda troops that became the much needed help for them to finish off the Libyan military.

---

The U.S. Has been and is helping self admitted Alqaeda affiliates and radical Islamists that fight with these Alqaeda groups in Syria (this is failing miserably btw).

Hey man, how come you are addressing Nora, who posted after me, and not me, who tore up your argument and burned it in an inferno, hmm?

Second: Prove it. Put the fuck up or shut the fuck up. Your stupidity and baseless claims are starting to piss me off.

Another pussy-ass coward who can't stand to see his point destroyed. Hands in ears, la la la la, right? Pathetic.

[I and I]

My Gosh but there is some utter nonsense being spoken.
...
6) Western leftists.

Western leftists hate Israel mainly because Israel is an ally of the USA. When Israel was supported by the USSR they backed Israel. Western leftists pretend that Israel is amongst the worlds worst human rights abusers. Any rational inquiry demonstates that it isn't so. Western leftists will support any Anti Western Muslim group -even ones that hate each other. Oddly they donl;t support Socialists'left liberals in Muslim countries who otherwise beleive the same thiongs they do,

You're full of hog shit. I have no problem with Israel, and I am "western leftist." Your generalizations for something that is much more complicated than your bullshit dumbdowning would suggest. Nice job stereotyping.

AQ is not actually that interested in the US. The 9/11 attacks were meant to get the USA to attack Afghanistan and outrage the Muslim world and then attack Iraq and destablise it. The first was entirely successful. The second was a disaster because it enabled the people they really hate -shias to take over Iraq.

Riiiiiight, and Osama bin Laden denouncing the US establishment of bases in Saudi Arabia and calling for them to leave (even though they were, you know, attacking Iraqi forces and bombing Iraq and raiding Iraqi facilities from those bases), the establishment of whose bases already outraged the more radical muslim world, and oh you forgot a dozen other attacks they made against US interests or soldiers.

1992: Yemen Hotel Bombing; two hotels were US troops had been staying at were bombed by al-Qaeda terrorists.

1993: WTC bombing, 6 killed, a thousand wounded.

1994: Plot by al-Qaeda operatives to blow up several airplanes carrying US passengers over the Pacific; tested on Philippines Flight 434. Later plot foiled because of an apartment fire that resulted in the operation being exposed due to firefighters locating the explosive residue when investigating for cause of fire.

1995: Saudi National Guard Training Facility bombed, 5 Americans killed and 2 Indians killed.

1998: US Embassy bombings in Kenya and Tarzania. 200 killed.

1999-2000: Al-Qaeda plots to kill US tourists and Israeli tourists as well in Jordan foiled by Jordan's government. Plot to bomb LAX foiled at US-Canadian border. Plot to bomb USS The Sullivans foiled due to the boat that was supposed to get to the ship being overweighted with explosives and sinking. USS Cole bombed.

SO what were those, huh? Do tell me. Given that none of those were directed against the US in ways that would incite an invasion of Afghanistan to piss off muslims to make us attack Iraq-

Your entire idea is stupid and you should feel stupid for spewing this bullshit.

AQ and the US are NOT diametrically opposed.

Read above.

They were on the same side against Ghaddaffi (and then the salafis attacked the US at Benghazi) and the US and AQ are on the same side against Syria

No. No they were not, and are not, and you have nothing to back this up. Shut the fuck up with your stupid conspiracy theory bullshit, armchair warrior.

BUT I think there are a lot of people who think that the USA/UK are on the wrong side whioch is why they have pulled out of interaction in Syria.

They've never HAD interaction with Syria, you unbelievably stupid nutbag! Syria and the US have, at BEST, animosity, and they have for decades.

Contrary to shit being doled out by idiots the USA never supported the Taliban OR AQ. They supported Anti Taliban Mujahids.

So, we're supporting aQ, but we never supported aQ?

Your opinion is suffering from severe intellectual-bipolar disorder.

As I said before. The less someone knows, the more opinion they have. And you? You are FULL of opinions on this topic.

Learn. Read. Study. And get your head out of your ass.

---

---

Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.

The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.

AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.

not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.

---

Hello Nora
What year was that? The west Including the U.S. A couple of years ago directly assisted self admitted Alqaeda affiliates in toppling and overthrowing gaddafi in Libya. NATO became the air force for the ground Alqaeda troops that became the much needed help for them to finish off the Libyan military.

---

The U.S. Has been and is helping self admitted Alqaeda affiliates and radical Islamists that fight with these Alqaeda groups in Syria (this is failing miserably btw).

Hey man, how come you are addressing Nora, who posted after me, and not me, who tore up your argument and burned it in an inferno, hmm?

Second: Prove it. Put the fuck up or shut the fuck up. Your stupidity and baseless claims are starting to piss me off.

Another pussy-ass coward who can't stand to see his point destroyed. Hands in ears, la la la la, right? Pathetic.

The 1993 bombing was an entrapment case in which the FBI with the use of an informant were inticing people to commit terrorist attacks. This informant suggested to the FBI that the bombs should be duds so that nobody gets hurt. The FBI said fuck that and gave real bombs to the terrorists to use.

This informant very wisely knew that one day he could be very easily thrown under the bus so he recorded his conversations with the FBI in which the recordings can be heard by anyone at this point.

Fucking next.

Where and how does Alqaeda get it's funding to fly fighters in and weapons into areas? Are you suggesting that a mass influx of Alqaeda fighters and weapons accidentally snuck into a heavily militarized and occupied Iraq? And that Alqaeda just coincidentally managed to divide the Iraqi insurgency among sectarian lines therefore making it easier for the US to defeat the insurgency?

The covert support for Alqaeda to topple and attack anti-US leaders/countries (THEY HAVE ONLY ATTACKED ANT-WESTERN ANTI-ISRAELI NATIONS) couldn't be coming from the billion dollar heroine trade in which tons of heroine is shipped out of the country accidentally under a heavily occupied and patrolled nation. Covert support for Alqaeda would never come from that.....never.

[Michael Schubert]

1) Yes, I support the liberation of Iraq, although I think Bush could have found a better target.

My goodness! You actually that "Operation Iraqi Freedom" scam. That wasn't for democracy, that was for Halliburton, WorldCom, Black Water and the rest of the military industrial complex.

Were you over there fighting in it?

[JohnCrichton72]

snip

I am surprised you can respond with such vinegar, generally when I see this sort of biased ranting I give up. It's blatantly obvious there is nothing you could say or do to convince him. It's ludicrous to think that the idea of religion exists in some sort of vacuum and doesn't effect cultural development, you could try to draw a comparison;

We are PCs and religion is the operating program like windows 2000, it is the software to our hardware

Also I hate the Jewish faith, the first thing they do to new members is go straight for the genitals to brand them. But even I can realise the amount of good works being done, the number of refugees and victims of the savagery (perpetrated by their neighbouring states) that have been given medical treatment is not something you could ignore and testament to their "software". Just as the barbarism of it's neighbours is testament to theirs. Here, let me know what you think of this. One of my favourites speakers on Israel.

[max-greece]

Fact: Hitler didn't come to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting, the nazis and zionists were collaborators during and before the war. Zionism wasn't popular among Jews so they needed all the help they could get and the nazi government helped the zionists with their plans for establishing a Jewish state and plans for settling Jews in the Middle East. The Zionist and Jewish business block was necessary to rebuild German economy after the depression. In fact you can go back and look at news paper photos of articles from American zionist groups at the time agreeing not to boycott the German economy during this rebuilding. The Zionist Jewish economic block was instrumental in helping nazi Germany rebuild it's military and economy and getting hitler elected. Not to mention every other western nation collaborating with nazis before-during-after ww2.

Ever hear of the transfer agreement?

At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it.

Yes, anti-communism was a huge platform for nazis, it was so huge that everyone else slobbed on hitlers knob and let him remilitarize Germany in hopes that he would be able to strangle communism in Russia. This is after the west had troops in Russia ready to invade after ww1.........yet we are told that those evil Commies were the aggressors during the Cold War. Fucking please.

Pretty disingenuous aren't you.

Nice switching back and forth between Zionism and Judaism to try to confuse the point. Nice fiat declaration that Hitler didn't rise to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting - what - it was just a side-line?

Yes - in the beginning many people were impressed with Hitler - no-one knew what he would turn out to be. Support in the US for Germany, at the time, was actually remarkably high - in many sections of society, not just Zionists.

Further Hitler had made the proposal to set up a Jewish homeland (to get all the Jews out of Germany) initially. Had he stuck to that plan things would have been very different.

Now:

"At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it."

First off I note the clever use of wording so that I cannot include times where Jews merely fled persecution (say, from Pogroms in Russia). Nor could I include the forced expulsion from, say, the Warsaw Ghetto - not a land, huh?

By eliminating all these such mass fleeings you think your point is safe. Sadly Jewish history makes interesting reading - there's very little that hasn't happened.

So lets look at England, why not?

1290: Edward the first - Edict of Expulsion

On 18 July, 1290, Edward I issued what came to be called the Edict of Expulsion. The same day that the Edict was proclaimed writs were sent to the sheriifs of most counties advising that all Jews in their counties had until 1 November to leave the realm. Any Jews remaining after this date were liable to be seized and executed. To rub salt into the wound a special tax on the Jews was agreed in Parliament.

It wasn't until Cromwell that Jews were allowed back into the country.

So - proof provided I think.

As for the defence of communism - poor, poor Stalin. Old uncle Joe just never deserved the bad press did he.

Now it occurs to me that you might think the forced expulsion from England is the only example.

At the same time others I have responded to in this thread are apparently mystified as to why I feel forced to recognise my Jewish history. I'm going to make a new thread to deal with that.

Just for the record you might want to look up the expulsions from:

Spain - 1492
Lithuania - 1495
Germany - 1499
Netherlands - 1582
Poland - 1648
Russian - 1727

There are lots more of course - but all of that is for a new thread.

---

snip

I am surprised you can respond with such vinegar, generally when I see this sort of biased ranting I give up. It's blatantly obvious there is nothing you could say or do to convince him. It's ludicrous to think that the idea of religion exists in some sort of vacuum and doesn't effect cultural development, you could try to draw a comparison;

We are PCs and religion is the operating program like windows 2000, it is the software to our hardware

Also I hate the Jewish faith, the first thing they do to new members is go straight for the genitals to brand them. But even I can realise the amount of good works being done, the number of refugees and victims of the savagery (perpetrated by their neighbouring states) that have been given medical treatment is not something you could ignore and testament to their "software". Just as the barbarism of it's neighbours is testament to theirs. Here, let me know what you think of this. One of my favourites speakers on Israel.

Excellent video - thanks for that, and for the support.

[I and I]

Fact: Hitler didn't come to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting, the nazis and zionists were collaborators during and before the war. Zionism wasn't popular among Jews so they needed all the help they could get and the nazi government helped the zionists with their plans for establishing a Jewish state and plans for settling Jews in the Middle East. The Zionist and Jewish business block was necessary to rebuild German economy after the depression. In fact you can go back and look at news paper photos of articles from American zionist groups at the time agreeing not to boycott the German economy during this rebuilding. The Zionist Jewish economic block was instrumental in helping nazi Germany rebuild it's military and economy and getting hitler elected. Not to mention every other western nation collaborating with nazis before-during-after ww2.

Ever hear of the transfer agreement?

At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it.

Yes, anti-communism was a huge platform for nazis, it was so huge that everyone else slobbed on hitlers knob and let him remilitarize Germany in hopes that he would be able to strangle communism in Russia. This is after the west had troops in Russia ready to invade after ww1.........yet we are told that those evil Commies were the aggressors during the Cold War. Fucking please.

Pretty disingenuous aren't you.

Nice switching back and forth between Zionism and Judaism to try to confuse the point. Nice fiat declaration that Hitler didn't rise to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting - what - it was just a side-line?

Yes - in the beginning many people were impressed with Hitler - no-one knew what he would turn out to be. Support in the US for Germany, at the time, was actually remarkably high - in many sections of society, not just Zionists.

Further Hitler had made the proposal to set up a Jewish homeland (to get all the Jews out of Germany) initially. Had he stuck to that plan things would have been very different.

Now:

"At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it."

First off I note the clever use of wording so that I cannot include times where Jews merely fled persecution (say, from Pogroms in Russia). Nor could I include the forced expulsion from, say, the Warsaw Ghetto - not a land, huh?

By eliminating all these such mass fleeings you think your point is safe. Sadly Jewish history makes interesting reading - there's very little that hasn't happened.

So lets look at England, why not?

1290: Edward the first - Edict of Expulsion

On 18 July, 1290, Edward I issued what came to be called the Edict of Expulsion. The same day that the Edict was proclaimed writs were sent to the sheriifs of most counties advising that all Jews in their counties had until 1 November to leave the realm. Any Jews remaining after this date were liable to be seized and executed. To rub salt into the wound a special tax on the Jews was agreed in Parliament.

It wasn't until Cromwell that Jews were allowed back into the country.

So - proof provided I think.

As for the defence of communism - poor, poor Stalin. Old uncle Joe just never deserved the bad press did he.

Now it occurs to me that you might think the forced expulsion from England is the only example.

At the same time others I have responded to in this thread are apparently mystified as to why I feel forced to recognise my Jewish history. I'm going to make a new thread to deal with that.

Just for the record you might want to look up the expulsions from:

Spain - 1492
Lithuania - 1495
Germany - 1499
Netherlands - 1582
Poland - 1648
Russian - 1727

There are lots more of course - but all of that is for a new thread.

---

I am surprised you can respond with such vinegar, generally when I see this sort of biased ranting I give up. It's blatantly obvious there is nothing you could say or do to convince him. It's ludicrous to think that the idea of religion exists in some sort of vacuum and doesn't effect cultural development, you could try to draw a comparison;

We are PCs and religion is the operating program like windows 2000, it is the software to our hardware :)

Also I hate the Jewish faith, the first thing they do to new members is go straight for the genitals to brand them. But even I can realise the amount of good works being done, the number of refugees and victims of the savagery (perpetrated by their neighbouring states) that have been given medical treatment is not something you could ignore and testament to their "software". Just as the barbarism of it's neighbours is testament to theirs. Here, let me know what you think of this. One of my favourites speakers on Israel.

Excellent video - thanks for that, and for the support.

Spain expelled all non Christians (Muslims included) and Christian factions that were not recognized as legit. This is hardly an anti-Jewish conspiracy or act when others that weren't Jewish suffered the same fate.

The same goes for the other "expulsions" you mentioned. It is purposely misleading to label the inquisition as an anti-Jewish program when Jews were not the sole victims or the main victims. That is like saying "since some of the victims of 9-11 were Asian then the perpetrators must have been anti-Asian". That is as stupid and misleading as your statements regarding so called anti-Jewish acts of nazis. In fact, showing sympathy for and pointing out that 20 million Russians were killed by nazis as well is somehow seen as anti-Semitic to some people.

Another example: some people killed in the invasion of Iraq were probably homosexuals. It would be stupid and misleading to conclude that the Iraq invasion was to kill gay Iraqis. 6 million Jews were killed (according to the guy who does the counting) and 20 million Russians were killed. It is completely stupid to conclude that the main or only reason for nazi aggression was to kill Jews.

And yes the nazis and Zionists collaborated before the war in an attempt to establish a land in Israel for Jews. It's called the transfer agreement. Jews and nazis swapped more cum than an L.A. Porn shoot.

IN ISRAEL there is a famous documentary about it, this doc was MADE BY AN ISRAELI and won several Israeli film awards. The Flat is the name of this documentary.

[max-greece]

The same goes for the other "expulsions" you mentioned.

Simply not true. Did you bother to check out my first expulsion - that of Jews from England by edict of Edward the first?

Which of the others have you actually investigated?

[Creed of Heresy]

The 1993 bombing was an entrapment case in which the FBI with the use of an informant were inticing people to commit terrorist attacks. This informant suggested to the FBI that the bombs should be duds so that nobody gets hurt. The FBI said fuck that and gave real bombs to the terrorists to use.

This informant very wisely knew that one day he could be very easily thrown under the bus so he recorded his conversations with the FBI in which the recordings can be heard by anyone at this point.

Fucking next.

No, NOT fucking next; what is this informant's name? When did this happen? Where are the records to show it? Where are these records? And have they been authenticated?

Where and how does Alqaeda get it's funding to fly fighters in and weapons into areas? Are you suggesting that a mass influx of Alqaeda fighters and weapons accidentally snuck into a heavily militarized and occupied Iraq? And that Alqaeda just coincidentally managed to divide the Iraqi insurgency among sectarian lines therefore making it easier for the US to defeat the insurgency?

The fact you just called Iraq "heavily militarized" as your sole means of defending your silly standpoint belies how little you know about how the invasion of Iraq and the aftermath of it went. The insurgency in Iraq has not been defeated; it continues to this day and US presence has only vacated due to the country's security forces and military personnel now being deemed capable of taking care of their country themselves, with US military advisors continuing to train and equip the Iraqi forces. Infiltrating a country like Iraq in the middle of the chaos of a military invasion is not hard. We had 150,000 troops or so when Iraq's government fell, and those were in combat areas, NOT BORDER CHECKPOINTS. We didn't have the manpower to provide sufficient security because we were occupying AN ENTIRE NATION practically by ourselves, with our military divided between Afghanistan and Iraq. Clearly you don't know even the most recent of history; no wonder you were only able to single out one of the listed attacks for your still-unsupported-claim.

The covert support for Alqaeda to topple and attack anti-US leaders/countries (THEY HAVE ONLY ATTACKED ANT-WESTERN ANTI-ISRAELI NATIONS) couldn't be coming from the billion dollar heroine trade in which tons of heroine is shipped out of the country accidentally under a heavily occupied and patrolled nation. Covert support for Alqaeda would never come from that.....never.

Riiiight, anti-western anti-Israeli nations... Like the US? And really, do you NOT understand how a military occupation actually works? ACROSS AN ENTIRE FUCKING NATION THAT IS COVERED IN HUGE, UNSETTLED AREAS AND MOUNTAIN RANGES? Either you're giving too much credit to US military strategy or you're woefully ignorant of how surprisingly easy it is to develop narcotics in any nation wherein a cohesive national integrated law enforcement system isn't in place. For fuck's sake, we grow tons of weed, and tons of meth is manufactured in mere states alone in the United States of all places! And it's coming from anyone with money who supports anti-Western ideals, and do you REALLY think all islamic fundamentalists are dirt-poor in an OIL RICH REGION LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST?

No wonder you were so late in addressing me, your counterpoints are GARBAGE.

[I and I]

The 1993 bombing was an entrapment case in which the FBI with the use of an informant were inticing people to commit terrorist attacks. This informant suggested to the FBI that the bombs should be duds so that nobody gets hurt. The FBI said fuck that and gave real bombs to the terrorists to use.

This informant very wisely knew that one day he could be very easily thrown under the bus so he recorded his conversations with the FBI in which the recordings can be heard by anyone at this point.

Fucking next.

No, NOT fucking next; what is this informant's name? When did this happen? Where are the records to show it? Where are these records? And have they been authenticated?

Where and how does Alqaeda get it's funding to fly fighters in and weapons into areas? Are you suggesting that a mass influx of Alqaeda fighters and weapons accidentally snuck into a heavily militarized and occupied Iraq? And that Alqaeda just coincidentally managed to divide the Iraqi insurgency among sectarian lines therefore making it easier for the US to defeat the insurgency?

The fact you just called Iraq "heavily militarized" as your sole means of defending your silly standpoint belies how little you know about how the invasion of Iraq and the aftermath of it went. The insurgency in Iraq has not been defeated; it continues to this day and US presence has only vacated due to the country's security forces and military personnel now being deemed capable of taking care of their country themselves, with US military advisors continuing to train and equip the Iraqi forces. Infiltrating a country like Iraq in the middle of the chaos of a military invasion is not hard. We had 150,000 troops or so when Iraq's government fell, and those were in combat areas, NOT BORDER CHECKPOINTS. We didn't have the manpower to provide sufficient security because we were occupying AN ENTIRE NATION practically by ourselves, with our military divided between Afghanistan and Iraq. Clearly you don't know even the most recent of history; no wonder you were only able to single out one of the listed attacks for your still-unsupported-claim.

The covert support for Alqaeda to topple and attack anti-US leaders/countries (THEY HAVE ONLY ATTACKED ANT-WESTERN ANTI-ISRAELI NATIONS) couldn't be coming from the billion dollar heroine trade in which tons of heroine is shipped out of the country accidentally under a heavily occupied and patrolled nation. Covert support for Alqaeda would never come from that.....never.

Riiiight, anti-western anti-Israeli nations... Like the US? And really, do you NOT understand how a military occupation actually works? ACROSS AN ENTIRE FUCKING NATION THAT IS COVERED IN HUGE, UNSETTLED AREAS AND MOUNTAIN RANGES? Either you're giving too much credit to US military strategy or you're woefully ignorant of how surprisingly easy it is to develop narcotics in any nation wherein a cohesive national integrated law enforcement system isn't in place. For fuck's sake, we grow tons of weed, and tons of meth is manufactured in mere states alone in the United States of all places! And it's coming from anyone with money who supports anti-Western ideals, and do you REALLY think all islamic fundamentalists are dirt-poor in an OIL RICH REGION LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST?

No wonder you were so late in addressing me, your counterpoints are GARBAGE. :confused-fall:

ENJOY the details of the 1993 NYC bombing entrapment.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/28/nyregi...all&src=pm

---

No, NOT fucking next; what is this informant's name? When did this happen? Where are the records to show it? Where are these records? And have they been authenticated?


The fact you just called Iraq "heavily militarized" as your sole means of defending your silly standpoint belies how little you know about how the invasion of Iraq and the aftermath of it went. The insurgency in Iraq has not been defeated; it continues to this day and US presence has only vacated due to the country's security forces and military personnel now being deemed capable of taking care of their country themselves, with US military advisors continuing to train and equip the Iraqi forces. Infiltrating a country like Iraq in the middle of the chaos of a military invasion is not hard. We had 150,000 troops or so when Iraq's government fell, and those were in combat areas, NOT BORDER CHECKPOINTS. We didn't have the manpower to provide sufficient security because we were occupying AN ENTIRE NATION practically by ourselves, with our military divided between Afghanistan and Iraq. Clearly you don't know even the most recent of history; no wonder you were only able to single out one of the listed attacks for your still-unsupported-claim.


Riiiight, anti-western anti-Israeli nations... Like the US? And really, do you NOT understand how a military occupation actually works? ACROSS AN ENTIRE FUCKING NATION THAT IS COVERED IN HUGE, UNSETTLED AREAS AND MOUNTAIN RANGES? Either you're giving too much credit to US military strategy or you're woefully ignorant of how surprisingly easy it is to develop narcotics in any nation wherein a cohesive national integrated law enforcement system isn't in place. For fuck's sake, we grow tons of weed, and tons of meth is manufactured in mere states alone in the United States of all places! And it's coming from anyone with money who supports anti-Western ideals, and do you REALLY think all islamic fundamentalists are dirt-poor in an OIL RICH REGION LIKE THE MIDDLE EAST?

No wonder you were so late in addressing me, your counterpoints are GARBAGE. :confused-fall:

ENJOY the details of the 1993 NYC bombing entrapment.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/28/nyregi...all&src=pm

http://youtu.be/9AzLTksDcXE tapes
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=41c_1349111326

[Creed of Heresy]

Alright, I'm will concede that the FBI might have had prior knowledge of the WTC bombing, and had an informant in on the whole thing. Except the transcripts are far from decisive on the matter of them orchestrating the bombing. Given that there was hours of transcripts, and this one little bit alone is the only part that suggests this, this is a vague suggestion at best. The only thing that it DOES show is that the FBI knew there was a plot to bomb the WTC. Given that they're the guys who deal with this sort of thing anyways, somehow their knowledge of it does not surprise me. What WOULD surprise me, however, is if the CIA were his handlers instead, because such a situation as you describe would go through them, NOT the FBI; CIA has closer inner ties to the government and tends to handle affairs of international proportion. This would be a situation wherein if the US was trying to support this idea of yours-

You know, let me just pump the brakes right there and just ask, at this point, what would this hope to achieve? Were we going to go and invade Iraq? Funny thing, the US government came to the conclusion that Iraq was NOT involved. This group was active for over a decade and attacked us repeatedly, without any ties being established anywhere until the Taliban openly began sponsoring and sheltering al-Qaeda, and even then we only invaded Afghanistan once we had a particularly vehement reason to do so. They'd been attacking US targets for a DECADE, OK? In no way were they things that would prompt an invasion of Afghanistan. And how did we go from "invade Afghanistan" to "invade Iraq" if Iraq was the real goal to piss off the arabic world? Why not elsewhere, huh? Why not Iraq itself? Bush had a daddy's-grudge against Saddam, and his rich oil buddies wanted to profit from war, that's all there was to it, al-Qaeda has only served to hinder that, not make it easier. They've continued to attack US interests in the mean-time as well.

You have "the FBI had some knowledge about a plot to bomb the WTC, we invaded Iraq after Afghanistan, therefore al-Qaeda is working for the US and the US is supporting al-Qaeda" as an argument. Well.



Looks like Raayan wasn't the only one who bought Tom's invention. And the last eight seconds really describes your whole claim.