If there is no God....

[chatpilot]

Samson I have stated many times that my lack of belief in the bible is due to what I have learned. There are many reasons why I don't accept the bible or any so called god inspired book Torah, Koran, Bible etc. One of my main contentions is that it is easy for it to be lost in translation from one language to another, also it is subject to human interpretation thus the reason we have so many religious sects claiming to be the true Christian church. Not to mention all of the stolen pagan myths and legends from pre-Christian cultures and societies that abound in the scriptures.

In my view the bible can go up on the bookshelf right next to The Iliad or any other beliefs filed under the mythology section in your local bookstore or library.

[Samson]

Chatpilot,...I couldn't agree with you more.....I have mine in line with the many other books on my shelf Greek Mythology, Book of Druidism, Qur'an, Book of Celts, Teutonic Mythology, Book of Mormon and the Satanic Bible..... LLOLOL..

I always thought they all look good together....One big shelf of mans imagination....However, I have yet to get the Torah or any of the 3 Hebrew Texts..... Still looking around for a pretty one....LOLOL

[littlegrimlin1]

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[hide]

I assume this is aimed at me.

Yep

1: Denying the work of Galileo on the position of earth in space.

Some stupid ppl did this yeah. Pre-dating them were religious ppl who agreed with Galileo

2: The atempt by the catholic church to suppress the age of egyption arifacts because it contradicted the bible.

People going against their religion

3: The persecution of hundreds of innocent women in the 14th and 15th century for witchcraft.

People going against their religion

4: creationism and intelligent design.

Some idiots believe this yeh

5: persecution of women, forcing them to wear constrctive outfits. Submiting them to genital mutilation.

People going against their religion

6: Honour killing.

People going against their religion

7: terrorism in the name of god.

People going against their religion

8: coming close to putting Sarah almost too stupid to live Palin one heartbeat from the whitehouse.

I think you lost your way a bit here

And finally

I remember seeing an old man being interviewed (by Fox I think), just before Bush JRs second election saying 'I'm gonna vote Bush, cos religious people just make better choices'

Spookily its the last statement that makes me the most worried.

That you watch Fox I find most scary

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I watch Fox in a kind of wide eyed horror.
But it can be funnier than the onion at times I mean have you seen Hannity the man with no neck.

But you seen to think that any bad act is by people going against their religion even when it states quite clearly within the text of the holy books that bad things are to be done to certain people.

To give one example, it clearly states in the Koran that the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith is death.

This is unequivical, evil and often carried out in middle eastern countries.

It is also not against their religion, it IS their religion.
[/hide]

I don't think that is stated in the Koran. I asked my Islamic friend about this and he said that was nowhere in the Koran. He says that it is based on the countrys' laws about abandoning Islam. But neverless it is stated that leaving will result in going to hell.... just like the rest of the religions nearly.

[downbeatplumb]

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[hide]

I assume this is aimed at me.

Yep

1: Denying the work of Galileo on the position of earth in space.

Some stupid ppl did this yeah. Pre-dating them were religious ppl who agreed with Galileo

2: The atempt by the catholic church to suppress the age of egyption arifacts because it contradicted the bible.

People going against their religion

3: The persecution of hundreds of innocent women in the 14th and 15th century for witchcraft.

People going against their religion

4: creationism and intelligent design.

Some idiots believe this yeh

5: persecution of women, forcing them to wear constrctive outfits. Submiting them to genital mutilation.

People going against their religion

6: Honour killing.

People going against their religion

7: terrorism in the name of god.

People going against their religion

8: coming close to putting Sarah almost too stupid to live Palin one heartbeat from the whitehouse.

I think you lost your way a bit here

And finally

I remember seeing an old man being interviewed (by Fox I think), just before Bush JRs second election saying 'I'm gonna vote Bush, cos religious people just make better choices'

Spookily its the last statement that makes me the most worried.

That you watch Fox I find most scary

---

I watch Fox in a kind of wide eyed horror.
But it can be funnier than the onion at times I mean have you seen Hannity the man with no neck.

But you seen to think that any bad act is by people going against their religion even when it states quite clearly within the text of the holy books that bad things are to be done to certain people.

To give one example, it clearly states in the Koran that the penalty for leaving the Islamic faith is death.

This is unequivical, evil and often carried out in middle eastern countries.

It is also not against their religion, it IS their religion.
[/hide]

I don't think that is stated in the Koran. I asked my Islamic friend about this and he said that was nowhere in the Koran. He says that it is based on the countrys' laws about abandoning Islam. But neverless it is stated that leaving will result in going to hell.... just like the rest of the religions nearly.

I havent personally read the Koran so your friend may be right, I assumed it was in the Koran because that was implied on an article I saw on the BBC on forced conversion in Afghanistan.

That does not lessen the fact that it is viewed quite widely as part of the faith and acted on as such.

But it does weaken my arguement a touch so... Bugger.

[Autumnlicious]

I disagree that punishment for being an apostate and infidel is not spelled out in the Quran.

From FaithFreedom.org:

/snip
3:90-91 "Verily, those who disbelieved after their Belief and then went on increasing in their disbelief - never will their repentance be accepted [because they repent only by their tongues and not from their hearts]. And they are those who are astray. Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers."

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,”

9:66, Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin

9:74, They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.
/snip
Unbelievers

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

4:48 “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
/snip

Look up the verses yourselves. Some of these quotes, selected from a great many on the source site, seem to stop short of actually saying "Kill anyone who is of a different faith than you", while others are rather overt.

[fr0d0]

As a former member of the AOG (pentecostal) church I know exactly what they believe. I can't believe you lot persist in emphasizing the 'division' and 'one true church' trash you do. _All_ Christian denominations considered mainstream (and that's all of them - a cult has to stray significantly from standard interpretation).

I feel the presence of the spirit of God in me too - and that's because my head worked it out first. You're suggesting chatty that people don't think which is ridiculous. You can be brainwashed, but that isn't what Christianity is about.

For my personal belief, necessarily strengthened by doubt, should my rationalizing of my belief shift I will simply cease to believe. There is no magic ingredient to belief. It touches human emotions, and that stems from the real hard logic.

and a place where the naughty resides.

The 'naughty'?

[Violet]

The 'naughty'?

See: Hell.

[Autumnlicious]

For my personal belief, necessarily strengthened by doubt, should my rationalizing of my belief shift I will simply cease to believe. There is no magic ingredient to belief. It touches human emotions, and that stems from the real hard logic.

Wait, what? Did you write that human emotions stem from logic? Because that reads as absurd - if emotions grew from logic, crimes of passion, etc,. would be oxymorons.

[fr0d0]

Thanks Sae

I didn't say 'exclusively' Synackaon.

[chatpilot]

fr0d0 apparently the Pentecostal movement in the UK is very different from the way it is here in the United States. Most Pentecostals here are totally ignorant when it comes to the scriptures, they are too damn lazy to read the bible and pretty much go by what the pastor preaches in his sermons. The encounter with god is not thought out it is usually as a result of a psycho-emotional reaction to the preaching of the gospel. The Catholic community here in the U.S. is just as bad most catholics have no idea what the bible says since reading it is not required. Only Catholics who aspire to priesthood or some other calling in the church are required to take courses on scriptures and other things relating to what position they seek.

The fact that there are so many so called Christian sects all over the world and they all use the same bible and interpret the same scriptures so differently solidifies my case in my mind. That the bible nor any other book is the word of god.