Atheists, smarter than theists?

[feeling]

I think there are things growing growing damp bread which can make that boast!

Actually, that's unfair. Nineteen is, I guess, a teenager. I'd have been little better at that age I suspect. Dos is insular and I guess a product of his environment. Sleepy is so inculculated into his own believe system he has lost the ability to be objective about it. In their own way they may each be intelligent...

Yeah and you can't decide whether to be atheist or not. Not much to envy there either.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Lol. I like you feeling. You'm funny.

Do you think that uncertainty is indicative of lack of intelligence then?

[feeling]

Lol. I like you feeling. You'm funny.

Do you think that uncertainty is indicative of lack of intelligence then?

Well you have uncertainty at one side. And very stupid fucking idea on another side. And you sit there like "Hmm I like this stupid fucking idea. But uncertainty feels good to. Damn I don't know what to pick. This is fucking tough decision I don't know what to do".

[Whateverist]

Well here I am back again between first and second sleep thinking about intelligence and ready to offer a general theory.

It could be that potential intelligence is equal in everyone. There may be no difference in the size of the smarts-reservoir we all lug around*, no hardware difference at all. It may be that it is just a trait we acquire in regard to our willingness to persist in the face of cognitive dissonance. The 'smart' person may simply be the one still nosing around when the scent of an idea grows faint. Messages we receive about the nature of intelligence and doubts we build up about our own would predictably feed back on that. Of course, it could well be that we develop more confidence in some fields than in others and with it more willingness to persist. A happy expectation of success may be both the reward of fruits won in past pursuits and the thing itself when it comes to 'intelligence'.



*With obvious rare exceptions of course. I did once have a student with microcephaly in an algebra class. He had many good qualities as a person and some capacity to reason with numbers in normal contexts. But to reason about reasoning with numbers forever seemed a bridge too far for him.

[houseofcantor]

Silly generalisation is silly.

Firstly, how are you measuring intelligence? Are we talking iq ? Knowledge? Education? How are we measuring?

Secondly, I know some staggeringly intelligent theists... And some staggeringly intelligent atheists. Same goes for atheists. So what are we talking about, averages? End ranges?

Where abouts are we talking? Society's vary, as do the predictors of religion.

Far to complex and multifaceted a hypothesis to test. That said I do seem to recall a study which tried. I'll dig it out because you know. Data and that.

Shut up, outlier.

---

There is a sense where the proposition is correct in that "goddidit" represents an end to the quest for knowledge.

[Whateverist]

There is a sense where the proposition is correct in that "goddidit" represents an end to the quest for knowledge.

This.

Except for the fact that for Jacob and Bill Moyers and other intelligent theists, it would appear that goddidit isn't the end of it. Sad to say, goddidn'tdoit too often does seem like the end of wondering for some of us atheists.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Lol. I like you feeling. You'm funny.

Do you think that uncertainty is indicative of lack of intelligence then?

Well you have uncertainty at one side. And very stupid fucking idea on another side. And you sit there like "Hmm I like this stupid fucking idea. But uncertainty feels good to. Damn I don't know what to pick. This is fucking tough decision I don't know what to do".

And how does one measure it as "a stupid fucking idea" (very erudite by the way:) Certainly I have many a time "sat there like" as you describe.

I mean its had a very positive effect on my life. Regardless of your views on the matter, that is a fact. And its possible to cite good quality Evidence that programs which are based around the premise of a "higher power" are effective in the treatment of substance abuse... So there may be times when the "stupid fucking idea" may be helpful (from an outcomes point of view.)

Lets say you enjoy stamp collecting. Now I would describe that as a tedious waste of time, which it would be were I to do it. But that's only true of the idea of ME stamp collecting. For you it is different. For you it is a fascinating hobby.

So just to be clear, are you suggesting that Religion has a determinate nature as "a stupid fucking idea" and that it remains so regardless of the person, nature, reason or circumstances for that belief?

---

Shut up, outlier.

Yessir. Sorrysir. Shuttingup nowsir.

Stupid fucking theists!!

[feeling]

Well if you like stupid shit say so. But don't pretend it is something it is not.
I enjoy when people are honest about their preferences in ideas. Whether they are rational or bunch of stupid shit.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Well if you like stupid shit say so. But don't pretend it is something it is not.
I enjoy when people are honest about their preferences in ideas. Whether they are rational or bunch of stupid shit.

Come now feeling, we were just getting to the meat of an interesting debating point. I'm trying to get to the bottom of what "stupid shit" means to you. However you seem to have simply repeated your view that religion is "Stupid shit" (or "a stupid fucking idea") without enlarging on the view at all. I'm hurt. I even found us some nice empirical data to pick apart together.

Allow me to repeat the question.

are you suggesting that Religion has a determinate nature as "a stupid fucking idea" and that it remains so regardless of the person, nature, reason or circumstances for that belief?

[Esquilax]

I mean its had a very positive effect on my life. Regardless of your views on the matter, that is a fact. And its possible to cite good quality Evidence that programs which are based around the premise of a "higher power" are effective in the treatment of substance abuse... So there may be times when the "stupid fucking idea" may be helpful (from an outcomes point of view.)

Lets say you enjoy stamp collecting. Now I would describe that as a tedious waste of time, which it would be were I to do it. But that's only true of the idea of ME stamp collecting. For you it is different. For you it is a fascinating hobby.

I like fantasy as much as the next guy, but I think you're the first to ever take up deity-watching as a hobby.

But I think it's important here to make a distinction between religion, and the positive benefits belief in a higher power may bestow, because the former makes definite existential, objective claims, whereas the latter appears to be taking advantage of a heuristic in our brains, one of those side effects of our smart-chimp minds that, in this case, provides a benefit without ever touching the truth of the claims attached to it.

You could say that your beliefs have helped you, and you would probably be right there, but that doesn't make them true, something I'm sure you're already aware of. In fact, not to sound rude or speak for you, but I wonder how much you actually believe this stuff, versus how much you believe in the utility of it. It's not like there's anything wrong with extracting the benefits from something, but by ignoring the objective claims and staying focused on the positive preferential benefits, you've effectively made your religious beliefs unassailable. A little pebble of irrationality in an otherwise entirely level headed human being.

At least, that's the conclusion I've come to from reading your posts; I reserve the right to be exactly as wrong as a non-telepathic person could be, on a question of someone else's thoughts.