Why I am an atheist Jew and a Zionist.

[WesOlsen]

Golden Dawn are indeed a bunch of loons. We have far right parties in this country, namely the National Front and the British National Party who for a time each managed to send a worrying ripple through UK politics when they enjoyed seperate bouts of concerning (but limited) electoral success. Fortunately in the UK, despite our tendancy for free-market traditionalist crap, we're a very mixed nation and there is a huge liberal undercurrent that has been able to stop these fascist bastards from growing too much. A friend of mine had a knife pulled on him after getting in to an argument with one of these idiots, and there are still frequent protests and brawls. BUT, in the cities and towns people are safe 99% of the time.

I can definitely see why you feel threatened by the growing menace of the far-right, but do you also see how the far right parties that guide Israel are of the same ilk? If you had to leave Greece, which would be truly awful, Israel is not the only place you could go.

Basically, Israel could still maintain a sizeable Jewish population without being so aggressively zionist and discriminatory. Israel is not the only country where you could be safe as a non-practicing jew (presumably you don't wear a kippah or any religious kit?). You could also not declare yourself as Jewish although this again depends on nation. Anywhere in western Europe or North America would gaurantee you equal rights, and their secular democratic systems (room for debate I know) would offer you a decent quality of life, probably a better one than in Israel. The only reason for you chosing Israel over any other countries is because of religious or cultural identity, which you can either shake off or embrace. If you want to be an atheist and shun the old testament, includings all its supernatural and genocidal trappings, then it's decision time. I'd hate to be in your shoes living in Greece, but zionism isn't the only solution, in fact it's not even in the top 10 solutions.

[max-greece]

Wes,

At least you now understand where I am coming from.

I would certainly agree that Israel would not be my destination of choice - but it is the only one I can be certain of.

The UK I'd trust more than any other country in Europe. Most European countries are attempting to deal with their own right-wing revivals at the moment. Spain, Italy, France et al may be only slightly behind the Greek curve. I haven't studied them, as yet, but I have a horrible feeling this is a pan-european thing. Ironically Germany would probably be the safest bet in Europe as their economy is stronger - but in all honesty I just couldn't.

I don't know if I could get into the US / Canada / Australia and get a work permit.

As far as I can see if anything happened to prevent me going to the UK, or the above 3, the only other option would be Israel.

Just to re-iterate a couple of things:

1. I don't generally self identify as Jewish. I am an atheist that happens to have been born Jewish.
2. At the same time I don't see why I should deny my birth, or hide it.
3. I do not support Israeli political positions in a host of areas. I'd be there attempting to talk reason to any that would listen whilst there.
4. I am fairly certain I'd hate it there.

[WesOlsen]

1. I don't generally self identify as Jewish. I am an atheist that happens to have been born Jewish.
2. At the same time I don't see why I should deny my birth, or hide it.

Then technically you are ethnically Jewish rather than Greek, if you mean that you were born Jewish and consider yourself an ethnic Jew. For my ethnic background I don't have to worry about a dual ethno-religious categorisation (To be White British is not to have to fuse race with religion) but it seems you still prefer to declare yourself as Jewish rather than simply Greek or 'White European'. Regardless, that's your call, but if you want to shake off everything that makes you Jewish, you simply have to cease identifying with any Jewish traditions and cease considering yourself religiously Jewish. If you don't want to do this and you still want to embrace certain aspects of your heritage then you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself, providing its limited to non-confrontational and non-theistic practice, otherwise you'r basically a theist, not an atheist. I'm of mixed British heritage for example, i'm technically half-Welsh and half-English. Ethnically this doesn't really mean anything, and I do enjoy some of the basic traditions from my Welsh side of the family, which is basically limited to food, language and some music. It has also meant that i've been on the recieving end of some relatively mild name-calling, but nothing that would constitute discrimination. Religion doesn't come in to the equation whatsoever for me, perhaps you can relate to this type of identity.

3. I do not support Israeli political positions in a host of areas. I'd be there attempting to talk reason to any that would listen whilst there.
4. I am fairly certain I'd hate it there.

Then you may not be a Zionist. If you find it fanciful to have one nation that has a significant Jewish population but one that gaurantees equal rights for non-Jewish citizens, then you're probably not strictly a zionist. The problem as already noted by you is that the state of Israel was created decades ago, so now it's too late to demand that thousands of Jews simply uproot and give the land back to the ancestors of the arabic peoples who lived there before. Anyone born in Israel since its birth is certainly Israeli, to ask them to leave the country and move elsewhere would be forced relocation (ethnic cleansing). What Israeli Jews can do however is construct a sensible immigration policy and weed out the unhealthy influence from the ultra orthodox, right-wing religious groups. They can also create an Israel that doesn't demand submission to the jewish nation as a necessary condition for membership, and give full civil rights to Israeli arabs who don't want to be made to call themselves servants to Israel. The whole concept of the dual religious and ethnic identity is baffling to me, it's almost like insisting that Black British people swear to become white British and swear obedience to white British masters...........it's just really quite daft. If you think that Jews come first and that Arabs (Muslim, christian or otherwise) should be second class citizens then you're pretty much on par with most contemporary zionists. If you also reject the religious component to zionism then you might not really be a zionist. Some christian zionists (including prominent politicians active in the USA) believe that the return of the jews to their ancestral homeland will hasten the return of Jesus, or will fulfill other biblical prophecies. This element to zionism for me is naturally stupid beyond all belief.

The UK would be a good place for you, we're an incredibly multi racial and multi religious nation. Spain, France, Belgium, Germany, Holland, Scandinavia would all be welcoming (again, debatable but largely true), like I say if you don't even tell anyone you're Jewish they'll just assume you're from elsewhere in Europe (unless you specify that you're Greek).