From atheism to Christianity? How so?

[Ksa]

When we A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11 we are essentially asking for continual 'proof.' After all what better proof of God is there than God?

You have a fun way of shooting yourself in the foot don't you? What does Luke 11 say:

"One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:

“‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.[b]
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]’”"

FAAATHER! When you, Drich from http://www.atheistforums.org, when you pray you say? FAATHER! Are you the son of God? Why do you say FAATHER?

So if everyone bound by the spirit of God are called sons of God, and all Christians praying adress God as FAAATHER, what is your fucking problem with Jesus when you say he's a SPECIAL SON. Like, a son going for special olympics, he's not a son like you and me he's a SPECIAL son. If Jesus was a special son of God he would have NEVER told his disciples to adress God as FAATHER. FAATHER should have been exclusive to him, but of course, we know he wasn't a special son, he was a son like you and me.

You make no sense!

[Whateverist]

I was working on a house project in the basement when I was overcome by a profound sense that the biblical text was somehow actually alive, every “jot and tilde”. And I remembered hearing this idea before in the writings of Swedenborg. I gave him a second look. To my surprise it started to make sense. He explained the Holy Trinity, Christ’s mission, and spiritual reality in a logical way. And for the first time really the Holy Scriptures opened up for me, filled with riches and insights on so many levels.

I think you have a greater than usual capacity for apophenia. You can intuit relationships and meaning in many contexts. Your propensity for meditation and engagement in creative pursuits leaves you open to that.

I think that is wonderful but I wonder why you are so eager to objectify it. Your opening remarks about people turning to the local cultural avenues for spiritual pursuits seemed spot on. So it is certainly understandable that you would do the same. But doesn't this recognition require that you hold your own spiritual truths a little more loosely and less literally? I suspect that while the bible lit up and spoke to you, many other texts could have done the same. You don't believe that people in other cultural milieus who have similar experiences revolving around other texts are in any way inferior to your own, do you?

Why should we think that there is anything objective whatsoever about meaning? Meaning is something that springs from us, taking on the trappings of various cultural settings as you yourself have said. There should be no question of absolutes when it comes to meaning. There is only meaning which is authentic for you and meaning which is not yours. It isn't so much something we manufacture as something we discover in and through ourselves.

What I don't understand is why you attach so much importance in establishing your beliefs in historic precedents. For the sake of finding a like minded community, okay. Otherwise, what difference does the pedigree make? You don't have to justify it.

Any way, thank you for the insights. I find you and your story very interesting and appreciate your sharing.

[Lemonvariable72]

*deleted

[Ksa]

He explained the Holy Trinity, Christ’s mission, and spiritual reality in a logical way. And for the first time really the Holy Scriptures opened up for me, filled with riches and insights on so many levels.

Brother the trinity was thrown out of the Bible as a fabrication, as an interpolation, as a concoction, as an innovation! By whom? Not by atheists, Muslims or Jews, but by 32 Christian scholars, of the highest eminence, backed up by 50 cooperative denominations, they found it was an innovation and they threw it out of the RSV(revised standard version) of the Bible. The ascension and the trinity are nowhere found in the original manuscript, it's an innovation to the original text.

[agapelove]

Since this topic just coincidently appeared, I suppose I will give my testimony. First off, I don't expect anyone to be convinced by what I am going to say. Most likely you'll think I had some kind of psychotic break, and that's okay, so long as you think I'm crazy in a good way. My journey is actually atheism to new age to christianity, by the way

Well, I was raised secular and the subject of God was never brought up in my home. All I really knew about Christianity is what I heard on television, so my knowledge of Christianity was pretty poor at this point. In my late 20s I started to have supernatural experiences. At that point I started to believe there was a spiritual reality and I began to pursue different religions and philosophies. A few years down the road I started to experience things which led me to believe there is an all powerful God controlling everything.

On that basis I believed in the all purpose God of love you hear about the new age. I didn't know anything about Jesus at this point. It took several years of exploring basically everything that I finally read the bible. On the basis of some revelation I had received prior to reading the bible, I began to believe the bible was Gods revelation to mankind. This is when I started to seriously consider that Jesus is the Messiah. After a few years of searching that out, I became convinced that He is the Messiah, and is still alive. That's when I became a Christian.

I can imagine what any rationalist might think when reading this, because it is utterly irrational on the worlds terms. You could call it a psychotic break, or confirmation bias, or any number of things. What I can testify to is the change in my life because I am a completely different person now. I am not problem free, but, I used to be depressed and now I am happy. I used to have a lot of fear and now I am at peace. I used to be addicted to many things and now I am sober. I used to use the internet too much..and I still use the internet too much. You get the picture..

So that's my story and I am sticking to it.

I take it you are still in your early 20s? Anyway, not to be cruel about it, but this sounds a lot like, "I used to be hooked on drugs, but now i'm hooked on Jesus." In time, you may recover from this unhealthy dependency as well.

Hey, no I am in my late 30s now. As far as drugs are concerned, when I converted to Christianity I was only smoking marijuana and cigarattes, which I gave up shortly after. It was during my journey with God towards the Christian faith that I fell into some particularly bad vices, but I was delivered of those before I gave my life to Jesus. The difference now is, I wouldn't go back to them for any reason; I feel like I've been set free. Before I came to my Christian faith I was still vulnerable to falling back into those vices. That addictive part of my personality is mostly dead now, although I still have some of those tendancies; such as using the internet too much.

[houseofcantor]

In my late 20s...

I take it you are still in your early 20s?

---

...anyhoo, we're a social species, and some peeps are just gonna fall into social clubs regardless of logic.

[agapelove]

Out of curiosity (I won't try to deconvert you, promise ), what sort of supernatural experiences? And what religions did you explore prior to xtianity and why were you looking for a Messiah (you said you became convinced that "Jesus is the Messiah"), many religions do not hint at a messiah.

Thanks Pineapplebunnybounce. The experiences were mostly of the same character, which was that at different times I started to feel an overwhelming sense of unconditional love all around me; from nature, from people, from situations. A beautiful current of pure love that went to the core of my being. I didn't correlate it to the Almighty at first, but it opened my eyes to the idea there is a spiritual reality. That led me to investigate the various religions and philosophies and led me into the new age.

I was not initially looking for a Messiah but in my new age wanderings I started to believe that there were people who had achieved spiritual enlightenment, and Jesus was one of those people. I began to see all of the problems happening in human history as ignorance to the spiritual reality, and so there was a need for a great teacher to illuminate the world about the spiritual principles behind reality. Eventually this coalesced into the understanding, under Christianity, that the problem was not ignorance but sin, and that we need a Savior to deliver us from sin.

[Ksa]

Because drugs kill brain cells. Seemples.

Where have you heard this? I'm a chemist/chemical engineer and in 7 years of University I've never heard of such a thing. Do you mean that "some drugs kill your brain cells."? Because then I agree with you, drugs like Oxidopamine kill brain cells and lead to Parkinson after only one dose. But they are exceptions...that I can count on the fingers of my hands.

[agapelove]

*opens can*

So when you were an atheist, you:

• Believed that ALL religions were contrived by men, and ALL were works of fiction
• Could not accept the claims made by religious people or their “holy” books
• Believed that religious people, of all “faiths” were misguided at best, and delusional at worst
• Believed that physical reality was all that there was, and stories of “creation”, deities, spirits, angels, demons, souls, etc., were merely fantasies

And then somehow you became convinced that Christianity was no longer to be grouped as a falsehood with all other religions, because it is actually the one religion that is true. That the god you now “believe in” is actually real, and that he really did create the universe, and that he really does rule over it. That angels, demons, spirits, etc., are factually real. And that after your death you will be resurrected and you will live forever in the presence of this god.

For some reason, I don’t believe you were ever an atheist, and I think you are making that claim as some lame attempt at an appeal to authority. I say bullshit.*returns can to shelf*

Hello there,

I'm getting close to 40 years old so I would say I am getting middle aged and not very young anymore, unfortunately. You are saying you don't believe I was ever an atheist because you don't see how any true atheist could ever come to a belief in God? It happens all the time. Here are a couple of lists of more well known people who converted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_con..._nontheism
http://www.ranker.com/list/former-atheis...s-atheists

A famous example is Anthony Flew, who was actually a very preeminent atheist for most of his life. I don't know if he ever became a Christian but he was at least a theist. You could also try plugging in "ex atheist" into youtube to find testimonies.

I am tempted to drudge up the no true scotsman fallacy on you, strongbad. I was a genuine atheist; organically grown in fact. You could make the same argument the other way, that those who converted from Christianity to atheism didn't really understand what they believed and were simply coasting by on their faith of their parents. Or that their conversion experience is rooted in conditions and emotions rather than reason, in things like bad treatment they received at church, the hypocritical actions of family members, a rebellion against authority, or being lured by the pleasures of sin. Before anyone gets offended, please know that I am not making any judgments about any of you, or how you arrived at your nontheism. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt about what they say they did or did not believe. I am just saying that the question can be raised on both sides for those who have converted from one to the other.

I didn't believe in the supernatural because I saw no evidence for it. All that I heard about the supernatural were reports that seemed to contradict one another, or seemed implausible or contrived. Like most human beings, I changed my mind when I had personal experience. The bible clarifies all of this by saying first that, all knowledge of God comes by personal revelation and not necessarily through empirical evidence. God may use empirical evidence but He will also have to give the revelation to correctly interpret that evidence. Such as that it is impossible for me to demonstrate that God exists to you unless God has also revealed it to you. You will simply never believe it without that personal revelation. God did not completely reveal that to me until my late 20s going into my 30s so just because you have not yet received that revelation necessary, doesn't mean you will not in the future.

[Ksa]

• Could not accept the claims made by religious people or their “holy” books

I, Atheist, accept the claims of Jesus Christ, when he said he was not God, like he says in the gospel of John chapter number 14 verse number 28 "My father is greater than I", gospel of John chapter number 10 verse 29 "my father is greater than all", gospel of Matthew chapter number 12 verse number 28 "I cast out devils with the spirit of God", gospel of Luke chapter number 11 verse number 20 "I with the finger of God cast out devils", gospel of John, chapter number 5 verse number 30, "I by myself can do NOTHING".

As I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just, for I seek not my will but the will of my father. What do you not understand?