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Numeric miracles of Quran?
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Iliad and Odyssey are poems with rhythms and symbol counts. The texts are older than all Abrahamic Religions.
Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan
Professional Watcher of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report!  (January 6, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Are you suggesting that numerical trickery equals miracles? Because if so, someone - not necessarily you - has a very low credulity threshold. Numerical tricks as u described them ensure that Quran was never manipulated. These numerical miracles .. r discovered by recent muslims! see.. God promised us that he will save Quran from manipulation and it will remain as it is .. all the time. And discovering these numerical "tricks" .. now … proves that the Quran was never been manipulated!! and why don't u ask how will this be a miracle? instead of making fun of him?? I'm sure u didn't seek an answer or anything good by ur reply. You can be good with different people .. u know! u can be good with him and still don't believe on god. 
You are aware that the same thing can be done to any text, right?
In fact, it has been done!  (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote:(January 6, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Are you suggesting that numerical trickery equals miracles? Because if so, someone - not necessarily you - has a very low credulity threshold. How? (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote: These numerical miracles .. r discovered by recent muslims! Irrelevant. (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote: see.. God promised us that he will save Quran from manipulation and it will remain as it is .. all the time. Non-sequitur. But maybe a clarification of your own opinions on the matter might help. (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote: and why don't u ask how will this be a miracle? instead of making fun of him?? I'm sure u didn't seek an answer or anything good by ur reply. Read my words again; I'm sure you'll find that I asked precisely that. Essentially, why you thought numerical manipulation is a miracle. I wasn't trying to make fun of anyone, and I certainly did ask for the purpose of seeking an answer. If you don't feel you can provide one then fine, just say so instead of projecting your insecurity onto me. Deflecting discussion by criticising the character of the questioner is exactly what you accused me of doing; maybe you ought to look a little closer to home. (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote: You can be good with different people .. u know! I know that ... do you? A cursory glance through my post and kudos history will show that, despite my best efforts, my posts are generally fairly well received and taken as friendly by people on all sides of the fence. So far I've been quite affable with you - whether this state of grace continues depends entirely on you. (January 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm)ska88 Wrote: u can be good with him and still don't believe on god. Well, that's handy but it's also rather insulting. Translated, you've just told me that just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I can't be nice. I do hope you didn't mean to say that, but if you did have that intention then please drop the attitude. I'm saying that for your own sake.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 RE: Numeric miracles of Quran?
January 9, 2014 at 9:07 am
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2014 at 9:14 am by Ziggy.)
That point of my post was to not get answers like " X books also have patterns" or "numerology is BS". I've heard this all before. I was looking for more specific criticism or maybe help with the mathematical side of things. The example I initially brought up was a good starting point. I've failed to find books with codes in them that seem this thorough. I'm very skeptical about this kind of theory too but I kinda feel a responsibility to come up with a legitimate response to it.....
http://www.holy-19-harvest.com now I've got this site to deal with, which argues for a "symmetric, 19 coded" Quran. See, it's like a constant battle for me. I've grown very depressed and tired trying to come up with an answer for these sort of things. (January 9, 2014 at 9:07 am)Ziggy Wrote: That point of my post was to not get answers like " X books also have patterns" or "numerology is BS". I've heard this all before. I was looking for more specific criticism or maybe help with the mathematical side of things. The example I initially brought up was a good starting point. I've failed to find books with codes in them that seem this thorough. I'm very skeptical about this kind of theory too but I kinda feel a responsibility to come up with a legitimate response to it..... LOL... Numerology works. It always works, on anything... you just need to dig enough and you'll find any number you're after. That's why people say it's BS and you can find it in any other piece of literature... I'm sure even 50 shades of grey can have some numerological significance attached to it.... does that mean that the author intended it to have that meaning? (January 9, 2014 at 9:07 am)Ziggy Wrote: That point of my post was to not get answers like " X books also have patterns" or "numerology is BS". I've heard this all before. I was looking for more specific criticism or maybe help with the mathematical side of things. The example I initially brought up was a good starting point. I've failed to find books with codes in them that seem this thorough. I'm very skeptical about this kind of theory too but I kinda feel a responsibility to come up with a legitimate response to it..... How about the "19 code" found in the American Declaration of Independence?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence. 
These things always seem to boil down to the old - What are the odds? Type question at the end.
For me numerology would only be of interest if it were predicted first, in detail and then discovered rather than being found and then surmised to be an important sign of something. As a quick demonstration of a "what are the odds" loaded question take a pack of cards, shuffle it well, look at the order. Ask yourself the question - what are the odds of the pack of cards being in this particular order? The answer is actually 1 in 52! (factorial) or about 1 in 10^67. Whilst that probability is accurate it is also meaningless, unless someone has predicted the order before it happened. The pack of cards has to have an order. No one order is any more likely than another.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
1+1 = 5
It's all possible when you make it up and use retrospective reasoning to apply value to something with an inherent subjective value (emotions are personal, as are the triggers for them). Numerology is just, well, it's just shit. |
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