Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 20, 2022, 1:51 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Yet Another Conversion Story~
#11
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 6:04 am)fr0d0 Wrote: ... you can never understand Christianity from the outside like that.
If so then it is fair to say the following too:

You can never understand Hindoeism, Taoism, Boeddhism, Islam, Janism, Zoroastranism, Satanism, Humanism, Totalitarianism, etc from the outside like that.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#12
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
I think you could understand Humanism and Totalitarianism as they don't require possession of belief in them to understand them, as Christianity, in part, explicitly does. The rest I don't know.
Reply
#13
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 9:07 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I think you could understand Humanism and Totalitarianism as they don't require possession of belief in them to understand them, as Christianity, in part, explicitly does. The rest I don't know.
Fact is that you haven't experienced any of them from within, so according to your own standard you can't give any substantial judgement.

According to my standard anybody equipped with the faculty of reason is in principle able to give substantial judgements. For instance one can assess alleged world views if they allow critical thinking and independent truth finding or primarily are based on dogma. That should give you a first rough idea of what you're dealing with.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#14
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
How do you know as a fact??

Then your standard doesn't apply to Christianity surely? Do you deny that Christianity in part explicitly requires belief to understand it?
Reply
#15
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 9:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: How do you know as a fact??

Then your standard doesn't apply to Christianity surely? Do you deny that Christianity in part explicitly requires belief to understand it?
Oh, it applies to Christianity allright. Just ask the average christian believer how THEY know all these fantastic facts about a virtual being and all that jazz. Basically they have read it in a book allegedly written by a virtual being. I mean, use the faculty of reason, for god's sake.

As to theology, that perversion of high priest cyclic reasoning that tries to parasitize on scientific endeavour, it openly embraces dogmatic thinking.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#16
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 9:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Do you deny that Christianity in part explicitly requires belief to understand it?
There's understanding, and then there's understanding. I see what you mean and it must be true on one level. However on another level, the informed but detached observer must be better placed to see the wood for the trees.
Only sheep need a shepherd.
Reply
#17
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 9:54 am)Pope Alfred Wrote:
(November 29, 2009 at 9:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Do you deny that Christianity in part explicitly requires belief to understand it?
There's understanding, and then there's understanding. I see what you mean and it must be true on one level. However on another level, the informed but detached observer must be better placed to see the wood for the trees.
Belief simply is the opposite of understanding. It is accepting the truth of something on basically hearsay. Belief does not entail understanding how biblical account can be that far at odds with scientific findings, it's pure acceptance of one account even in the face of overwhelming contradictory scientific evidence.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#18
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
Sorry Rabbit you seem to have strayed off subject. You need to substantiate your reasoning that faith is unnecessary.
Reply
#19
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 10:24 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Sorry Rabbit you seem to have strayed off subject. You need to substantiate your reasoning that faith is unnecessary.
Well it seems you are not fully grasping my point. You said that christianity explicitly requires belief to understand it.

I am not saying that faith is unneccessary to belief, quite the contrary, imo there really is no other option then to shut down reason in the process of believing and contrary to ample evidence simply accept on faith. And you could have belief in Rabbitism by doing so. But I am saying that faith does not add up to understanding as in explaining facts of the world in terms of cause and effect since unconditional acceptance i.e. faith itself is needed to belief that the belief statements of christianity do indeed bare any meaning on the world in terms of cause and effect.

In other words, belief itself does not lead to understanding, it only leads to acceptance.

Also christianity as a cultural phenomenon can be studied with the faculty of reason in order to understand it and that does not require faith. So we should make a distinction between understanding christianity as a cultural phenomenon which requires no faith, and understanding the meaning of belief statements themself, which requires basic knowledge of language. Saying that you need faith to understand belief does not necessarily imply that you understand anything in terms of cause and effect just that you accept fairy tales as an accurate account of what happened and will happen.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply
#20
RE: Yet Another Conversion Story~
(November 29, 2009 at 9:40 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Do you deny that Christianity in part explicitly requires belief to understand it?

Quite the contrary Mr. Frodo, delusion is best observed from the outside.
.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Information Conversion - De-conversion *Long* rskovride 9 2079 March 4, 2018 at 11:30 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  So my story of becoming a non-believer: Mechaghostman2 2 1552 January 8, 2016 at 2:56 pm
Last Post: Old Baby
  My conversion story, just to get it off my chest. LadyForCamus 4 1652 December 26, 2015 at 10:46 pm
Last Post: Reforged
  My Deconversion Story PhilliptheTeenageAtheist 26 4559 June 2, 2015 at 11:58 pm
Last Post: SteelCurtain
  My Conversion Story Rancid 16 3672 February 21, 2015 at 9:31 pm
Last Post: JesusHChrist
  Converted into Athiesm - My Story coolfunkDJ 15 3742 February 9, 2015 at 8:14 am
Last Post: Nope
  Recent convert - My story Regina 6 1915 January 7, 2015 at 11:18 am
Last Post: Regina
  The Conversion Story of a Kid Kloud 11 2639 December 18, 2014 at 6:12 am
Last Post: robvalue
  My de-converted re-conversion Rarthyr500 47 10498 December 8, 2014 at 9:16 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  anyone buy a drone yet? Jextin 0 637 December 4, 2014 at 8:17 am
Last Post: Jextin



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)