Is the universe God?

[Lek]

What I'm trying to do is open closed-minded people to the possibility that something may well exist that is beyond the scope of our ability to find it through scientific discovery. Why is it not possible that a non-corporeal being could reveal himself to humanity?

If this thing is undetectable using demonstrable, testable, verifiable and falsifiable evidence, how are we supposed to differentiated it from something that doesn't exist?

What mechanism do you use?

How does your mechanism for detection differ than say, Hindus, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, etc, etc?

[Cyberman]

Still not got the hang of that quoting thing, then?

[Lek]

If this thing is undetectable using demonstrable, testable, verifiable and falsifiable evidence, how are we supposed to differentiated it from something that doesn't exist?

What mechanism do you use?

How does your mechanism for detection differ than say, Hindus, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, etc, etc?

I rely on the testimony of those who who walked with Jesus during his public life and the miracles he performed as written in the scriptures. In a courtroom we use testimony of witnesses to help determine guilt or innocence. The bible is a testimony that was passed down through the years telling of a coming messiah that was fufilled in Jesus. I also opened myself to God and he drew me to him. I've investigated atheism and other religions and at times I've considered walking away, but there's nothing to go to.

So that's was my way - the testimony of witness, the reliability of biblical prophesies concerning Jesus and other events, finding other relligions and philosophies lacking and most of all, God's calling. If you won't open yourself, you won't hear.

[Esquilax]

I rely on the testimony of those who who walked with Jesus during his public life and the miracles he performed as written in the scriptures. In a courtroom we use testimony of witnesses to help determine guilt or innocence. The bible is a testimony that was passed down through the years telling of a coming messiah that was fufilled in Jesus. I also opened myself to God and he drew me to him. I've investigated atheism and other religions and at times I've considered walking away, but there's nothing to go to.

Lek, you do understand that we have perjury laws, yes? Why do you think we have those? What possible reason would we have for erecting laws punishing those who lie in their court testimony?

Is it because not all court testimony is automatically true, and that we use evidence to verify one way or the other whether that testimony is true?

[Popsicle]

I rely on the testimony of those who who walked with Jesus during his public life and the miracles he performed as written in the scriptures. In a courtroom we use testimony of witnesses to help determine guilt or innocence. The bible is a testimony that was passed down through the years telling of a coming messiah that was fufilled in Jesus. I also opened myself to God and he drew me to him. I've investigated atheism and other religions and at times I've considered walking away, but there's nothing to go to.

So that's was my way - the testimony of witness, the reliability of biblical prophesies concerning Jesus and other events, finding other relligions and philosophies lacking and most of all, God's calling. If you won't open yourself, you won't hear.

Do you believe the bible is completely accurate and true?

[Simon Moon]

I rely on the testimony of those who who walked with Jesus during his public life and the miracles he performed as written in the scriptures. In a courtroom we use testimony of witnesses to help determine guilt or innocence.

The Gospel writers were not eyewitnesses. The Gospels are of unknown authorship.

If you rely on personal testimony to corroborate miracle claims and magical events, no wonder you're gullible.

Right now, today, you could go interview 1000's of people that claim to have been abducted by aliens. Do you believe them?

The bible is a testimony that was passed down through the years telling of a coming messiah that was fufilled in Jesus.

Nope. The so called prophecies are either: mistranslations, about another character, self fulfilling. Not to mention, that the NT authors had the OT to refer to.

I also opened myself to God and he drew me to him. I've investigated atheism and other religions and at times I've considered walking away, but there's nothing to go to.

Yeah, I hear the same story from followers of those other religions. You still haven't explained how someone that doesn't believe in any of them is supposed to be able to discern the difference.

[Lek]

Do you believe the bible is completely accurate and true?

I believe that the events in the bible are true and that it coreectly leads us to Christ. I can tell you about something that happened and it would be true and you would know what happened. In the course of relating the event to you I might say that a car drove by, but it actually was a truck. Technically, I was wrong, but it didn't affect the meaning of what I wanted to relate to you.

Another thing to consider is the style or type of writing. In many cases he's writing a story to demonstrate a moral principle. Sometimes a writer uses symbolism to demonstrate a truth. You also need to conisder the audience of the writer and how they would understand what was being said and so on.

[EvolutionKills]

Do you believe the bible is completely accurate and true?

I believe that the events in the bible are true and that it coreectly[sic] leads us to Christ.

Evidence?

I can tell you about something that happened and it would be true and you would know what happened.

Depends on the claim and the evidence provided. If you said that you owned a car, that's very reasonable and I'd take you at your word. Cars and their owners are very common and not at all extraordinary.

If you said that you owned s spaceship capable of intergalactic travel, well I'd need quite a bit more evidence than just your word for it. Because to the best of my knowledge, those simply do not yet exist, and even if they did they wouldn't be owned by individuals.

In the course of relating the event to you I might say that a car drove by, but it actually was a truck. Technically, I was wrong, but it didn't affect the meaning of what I wanted to relate to you.

Depends on how crucial the vehicle is to the claim, which must be evaluated on a case by case basis. If the Bible said Jesus ate a fish, it's a normal enough claim to be taken at face. The problem lies when the Bible claims that Jesus performed miracles and was raised from the dead, extraordinary claims for which there is no evidence.

Another thing to consider is the style or type of writing.

Nope. The gospels were written decades after the supposed events, by anonymous authors who were not eye-witnesses. Not only that, but even if Jesus did exist, he would have spoken Hebrew and Aramaic; the Gospels were written down in Greek.

In many cases he's writing a story to demonstrate a moral principle. Sometimes a writer uses symbolism to demonstrate a truth. You also need to conisder[sic] the audience of the writer and how they would understand what was being said and so on.

Understanding cultural context still doesn't provide any evidence for any of the miracle claims made in the Gospels. However learning the history of the text, like the fact that the Resurrection story is not a part of the oldest and best copies of Matthew (they simply end at the crucifixion) and appears to have been added to the text much later; give us very good reasons to doubt the authenticity everything in the Gospels.

[Lek]

events, by anonymous authors who were not eye-witnesses. Not only that, but even if Jesus did exist, he would have spoken Hebrew and Aramaic; the Gospels were written down in Greek.

Matthew and John were both apostles and their gospels were written within their lifetimes. The other writers were close associates of witnesses. Mark was a companion of Peter, who also wrote two books proclaiming the re[/quote]ssurected Christ. It doesn't matter what language they were written in. We read them in English or whatever language we speak. Since the new testament writings were not only addressed to the Jews it would have made sense to write in the prevailing language of the day which was Greek.

[EvolutionKills]

Nope. The gospels were written decades after the supposed events, by anonymous authors who were not eye-witnesses. Not only that, but even if Jesus did exist, he would have spoken Hebrew and Aramaic; the Gospels were written down in Greek.

Matthew and John were both apostles and their gospels were written within their lifetimes. The other writers were close associates of witnesses. Mark was a companion of Peter, who also wrote two books proclaiming the ressurected[sic] Christ. It doesn't matter what language they were written in. We read them in English or whatever language we speak. Since the new testament writings were not only addressed to the Jews it would have made sense to write in the prevailing language of the day which was Greek.

To start, you suck at formating.


Now then, you think that the Gospels were actually written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? You're that ignorant of the consensus of Biblical scholarship? The fact that the best evidence we have is that they were written decades after the supposed events, and didn't have names attributed to them until into the 2nd century? Do you know that the oldest and best preserved copies of the Gospel of Mark lack the Resurrection, and just end after the crucifixion? That the story of the woman caught in adultery in John wasn't added until the 8th century? We don't have any complete manuscripts or codexes until centuries after the supposed events? That there are more differences between the Greek manuscripts and fragments than there are actual word in the Bible? Still think your copy of the Bible is an inerrant trustworthy copy of some perfect original?


"Since the new testament writings were not only addressed to the Jews it would have made sense to write in the prevailing language of the day which was Greek."





Right, so you know nothing of first century Judea. The Jews tended towards xenophobia and isolation, they did not integrate well into the Roman Empire; hence the Jewish Wars spearheaded by the orthodox Jews of Palestine. More assimilated, or Hellenized Jews, were not only in the minority but also despised by the hardliners. If you wanted to reach the majority of Jews, you would not have written the Gospels in Greek; which was despised by the majority of unassimilated Jews. If your point was to convert the Jews, then you'd write the Gospels down in Hebrew or Aramaic; the languages that would have been used by Jesus if he actually existed.