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The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 5:29 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2014 at 5:34 pm by DeistPaladin.)
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 5:39 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2014 at 5:42 pm by Sword of Christ.)
There were plenty of miracle workers, exorcists, healers and religious preachers like Jesus wandering around at the time they were ten a penny. So there is no reason why the gospels can't have been based on a historical person. One point of interest is that Jesus didn't refer to himself as the Messiah even though the Christians writing the gospels would have been keen on him saying this as that's who they believed he was. So they were making an effort on maintaining the oral material they had as accurately as they were able rather than fabricating in everything they would have ideally liked. As to whether Jesus is the Word of God it's best to consider the fruits of his teachings and the way they impacted the world and society throughout history. A genuine revelation from God will change a great deal and change it for the better.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 5:43 pm
Corruption... I do smell!!
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 5:44 pm
Hey DeistPaladin,
You make an absolutely crucial point so often ignored in this debate, rendering most discussions on the topic absolutely moot, ironically!
If you haven't read him, may I recommend Richard Carrier's works to you?
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:03 pm
I guess the options that I can think of are:
1. Jesus is totally a myth.
2. Some guy was around 2000 years ago, did some preaching and had some followers, but was pretty unremarkable.
3. Someone, possibly called Jesus, who did some preaching and attempted say to heal people. Some of the stories are true to some extent, with a lot of embelishment.
4. Everything in the bible about Jesus is true.
5. Somewhere else between 1 and 4.
Does anyone who is well read on this know what is thought to be the most likely? Also from what I understand there were active historians in the area at the right time who completely failed to notice all this going on. Is this true?
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:25 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 5:39 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: One point of interest is that Jesus didn't refer to himself as the Messiah
Actually, yes he did.
Do you know what "Christ" means? It's not a last name. It's a title, as in Jesus The Christ. Christ is derived from it's Greek Christos, which translates to "the anointed one" or "Messiah".
Quote:Matt 16:13-19 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:28 pm
People reportedly calling you something != Calling yourself something
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:33 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Alex K Wrote: Hey DeistPaladin,
You make an absolutely crucial point so often ignored in this debate, rendering most discussions on the topic absolutely moot, ironically!
If you haven't read him, may I recommend Richard Carrier's works to you?
Yes, I have. I enjoy his works and still am sympathetic to the idea of the Jesus myth. Another problem I forgot to mention in the OP is one of proving a negative.
Frequently in these debates, Jesus shrinks down into some poorly defined wandering rabbi of some sort, small and fluid enough to easily slip through the cracks of our knowledge of the ancient world. With a little slight of hand, the "historist" can slyly shove the burden of proof on the skeptic. A few ad hominems about the skeptic being a "crackpot" or some false comparisons to conspiracy theories and holocaust deniers helps to disguise this maneuver.
It's like if an atheist were charged to prove that God doesn't exist. How do you prove a negative, especially when the claim is so vague to begin with?
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"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:34 pm
(February 11, 2014 at 6:28 pm)StuW Wrote: People reportedly calling you something != Calling yourself something
But Jesus agreed and rewarded Peter for his "correct answer".
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: The Jesus Moot Theory
February 11, 2014 at 6:40 pm
Apologies, I just skimmed the quote and saw the bolded bit lol.. I think Dawkins made a very similar statement to your OP in God Delusion.
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