one logical explanation for Materialistic Athiesm?

[Bob101]

As of yet all I have read is reasons why you don't believe in 'god.' I never brought god into it, I want to hear a logical reason for Materialistic Atheism. Not a reason why you don't like religion, or a believe in a specific god.

Atheism claims an interest in truth and nothing more. But as far as I can tell it is just a fan club against religion. If you actually were interested in the ultimate truth's, then you would be going about finding it, and not in just one specific area, but in all the areas available to us. We know without a shadow of a doubt that what we see and perceive is not reality. So to say, 'we know the material world exists' is actually quite naive. I am not saying it doesn't, in some form, but not how we perceive it. If materialism is correct, and this universe is simply a ball of blind matter that happened to spring into existence and then spawn consciousness as pure fluke (scientists are realising this doesn't make any sense) then you have to believe in miracles. Here's why;

If the universe is purely matter, then either;

Something came out of nothing, or
it is infinite.

The idea of an infinite universe within time and space is a highly illogical one and that has been clear for centuries. So, if something came out of nothing, then how? Well that's a miracle no matter how it happened. And don't give me the theories of multiple universes etc. because it had to start somewhere, and creating multiple universes is an unnecessary complication to the matter.

Another point I'd like to make is that the word "god" has a million and one connotations. A creator god is just one, and probably the most primitive.

As for my 'beliefs' I do not believe in a religious god, nor am I an Atheist or Agnostic. I am interested in the truth, and by truth I don't mean facts, I mean ultimate truth's. Facts are merely a trivial observation within time and space. Science has to operate within time and space by definition, therefore it will never be able to answer the big questions, like are time and space fundamental? Many scientist's know this. However people who know very little about science, religion, philosophy, metaphysics, etc. seem to think that we have things pretty sussed out and there is no other option than the scientific one. If those people actually took some time to really study the subjects they are supporting or refuting, then they would realise that there is a lot more to it all than they think.

[Psykhronic]

We know without a shadow of a doubt that what we see and perceive is not reality.

Prove it.

[LastPoet]

Atheism claims an interest in truth and nothing more. (...)

No, atheism is the rejection of claims of god(s). I remain unconvinced of gods, despite my upbringing of such magical things. It rejects a claim, makes none.

[Bob101]

Hi,

As Atheist's like to claim the logical high ground for some reason, I was just wondering if any of you can actually give me one logical/rational explanation for Atheism, in particular Materialistic Atheism, which is the only kind as far as I am aware.

Btw I am not Religious or Atheist.

Cheers,
Bob

So you claim that atheists universally claim the "logical high ground"? I don't agree but lets move on.

As has already been pointed out to you, most of us do not claim to know whether or not gods exist. We merely do not believe in any based on what we now know. Upon receiving more adequate evidence we of course will be free to revise what we believe. So atheism as such does not necessarily entail a knowledge claim. It is merely a statement regarding a class of beliefs, those involving gods.

So, whether or not you are an agnostic surely you know whether you entertain a belief in a god, don't you? I know nothing of any gods, and so like you am an agnostic. But I know I have not a shred of belief in any gods since nothing I have experienced or been told has been sufficient to engender such a belief. How about you? Do you have any belief in gods?

Perhaps you have as much difficulty answering this question as I do. I have only the vaguest of ideas what a god is supposed to be. It is pretty tough evaluating the existence of something that is so fuzzily defined as a god. But from what I can gather, I don't find I pay them (gods) any mind in making any decisions. They are a non-factor in my deliberations. Do you find yourself taking the possible existence of gods into account in your deliberations? If not, I suspect you are actually an atheist, someone devoid of a belief in gods.

Fair enough you don't believe in god, but whether you factor god in you deliberations or not has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. Our deliberations, words, thoughts, beliefs, perceptions, symbols, labels, language, are all merely manifestations of conciousness and mind.

It's fine if people are pretty indifferent to it and just want to live their life either believing or not believing. But I was asking the people who have a strong view point within Atheism if they have a logical reason for Materialism as opposed to Theism, or any other of the many theories of the cosmos. I actually know that there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism, so in asking the question I just wanted to gauge what people thought as one.

[houseofcantor]

Hi! My name's retard, and bringing up atheism ain't bringing up god, motherfuckers!

In other news, I'm an atheist because I'm a prophet. Other atheists have other stories, and Materialism is a wholly different story.

[LostLocke]

As of yet all I have read is reasons why you don't believe in 'god.' I never brought god into it, I want to hear a logical reason for Materialistic Atheism. Not a reason why you don't like religion, or a believe in a specific god.

The lack of a belief in gods is what atheism is. So, you asked us why but didn't want to hear the answer, or didn't understand the answer?

If the universe is purely matter, then either;

Something came out of nothing, or
it is infinite

Or option 3:
It is purely matter (in the way you're trying to make it sound, but not literally), did not come from nothing, and is not infinite. This seems to be the current accepted hypothesis.

[Bob101]

We know without a shadow of a doubt that what we see and perceive is not reality.

Prove it.

Really? or is that a joke?

Colour does not exist, sound does not exist, hardness or softness does not exist etc. They are merely perceptions. And one form of concious experience.

Words are labels and not reality, we are trapped in the symbolism of our perception that we developed since birth through language and being told what's what.

And more Scientifically, just look into Quantum Physics.

[Alex K]

Fair enough you don't believe in god, but whether you factor god in you deliberations or not has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. Our deliberations, words, thoughts, beliefs, perceptions, symbols, labels, language, are all merely manifestations of conciousness and mind.

It's fine if people are pretty indifferent to it and just want to live their life either believing or not believing. But I was asking the people who have a strong view point within Atheism if they have a logical reason for Materialism as opposed to Theism, or any other of the many theories of the cosmos. I actually know that there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism, so in asking the question I just wanted to gauge what people thought as one.

I'm not indifferent, so your objection to whateverists post does not apply to me.

I have a question before we go on: what do you mean by "logical stand" or "logical explanation". You have to be a bit more specific what you actually demand or what you think doesn't exist. What are we talking about here? A mathematical proof? A logical argument based on empiricism and probability theory? Your language so far is too imprecise to really argue about anything, or even answer your question properly.

[Bob101]

Atheism claims an interest in truth and nothing more. (...)

No, atheism is the rejection of claims of god(s). I remain unconvinced of gods, despite my upbringing of such magical things. It rejects a claim, makes none.

Ok, so there it is. Atheism is merely a retaliation to organised religion. And has nothing to do with logic.

[Angrboda]

As for my 'beliefs' I do not believe in a religious god, nor am I an Atheist or Agnostic.

And yet you listed your religious belief as agnostic. Do you normally start out conversations this dishonestly? For someone who claims to be interested in the big truths, you're surprisingly negligent with the smaller ones. Or maybe you're just a liar from top to bottom. Probably the latter. You sound like one.