one logical explanation for Materialistic Athiesm?

[Alex K]

No, atheism is the rejection of claims of god(s). I remain unconvinced of gods, despite my upbringing of such magical things. It rejects a claim, makes none.

Ok, so there it is. Atheism is merely a retaliation to organised religion. And has nothing to do with logic.

Even if that were LastPoet's idea of it, it certainly is neither mine nor that of the majority of atheists I know, so please don't put up that kind of straw man.

[Psykhronic]

I actually know that there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism,

You seem awfully all about 'knowing'. You know what we see is not reality, you know there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism. I have to wonder why someone with such insights is bothering to garner anything from us.

And good luck finding answers about 'not-spacetime', which is where you claimed your adventures in 'truths' lay. If we have no means to measure 'not-spacetime' then you have no means to convince us of anything or any truth regarding such a 'place'.

---

Prove it.

Really? or is that a joke?

Colour does not exist, sound does not exist, hardness or softness does not exist etc. They are merely perceptions. And one form of concious experience.

Words are labels and not reality, we are trapped in the symbolism of our perception that we developed since birth through language and being told what's what.

And more Scientifically, just look into Quantum Physics.

Yeah we perceive things.. which means they do not exist how?

[Esquilax]

It's fine if people are pretty indifferent to it and just want to live their life either believing or not believing. But I was asking the people who have a strong view point within Atheism if they have a logical reason for Materialism as opposed to Theism, or any other of the many theories of the cosmos. I actually know that there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism, so in asking the question I just wanted to gauge what people thought as one.

As I mentioned on the first page, you probably aren't going to meet a strong materialist here; you're going to meet a bunch of people who are honest about the limitations of their knowledge, and are content with that, as opposed to going further and tacking on additional claims they can't support. Atheism isn't materialism, and one doesn't have to be the latter if they identify as the former. You're attempting to tack on a concept here that most of us won't share in a way that would require us to provide evidence for it. For me, I accept that the physical world exists because I'm living in it, and I accept the things we can demonstrate about it; that's the end of my knowledge, so why would I indulge in a theistic position, or a purely materialist one, when instead I can just... admit where the end of my knowledge is?

And I'm a little worried at this point, because for someone who claims to be neither theistic nor atheist, you sure as hell seem to be falling victim to some theistic misrepresentations of atheism.

[Bob101]

As of yet all I have read is reasons why you don't believe in 'god.' I never brought god into it, I want to hear a logical reason for Materialistic Atheism. Not a reason why you don't like religion, or a believe in a specific god.

The lack of a belief in gods is what atheism is. So, you asked us why but didn't want to hear the answer, or didn't understand the answer?

Ok so it's a lack in a belief in god. And nothing more. I am glad you said that because it makes Atheism totally irrelevant when actually searching for any real answers.

If the universe is purely matter, then either;

Something came out of nothing, or
it is infinite

Or option 3:
It is purely matter (in the way you're trying to make it sound, but not literally), did not come from nothing, and is not infinite. This seems to be the current accepted hypothesis.

haha. So it's the current accepted hypothesis, but it has literally no clue of what it is saying or any way of explaining why it is so?

If it isn't infinite, and didn't come from nothing, then what?

[Esquilax]

haha. So it's the current accepted hypothesis, but it has literally no clue of what it is saying or any way of explaining why it is so?

If it isn't infinite, and didn't come from nothing, then what?

We don't know. Does that make you uncomfortable?

[LostLocke]

If it isn't infinite, and didn't come from nothing, then what?

It's finite and came from something.

(I see me and Esq are going down two different paths... but I get a feeling we're going to end up at the same place )

[Bob101]

As for my 'beliefs' I do not believe in a religious god, nor am I an Atheist or Agnostic.

And yet you listed your religious belief as agnostic. Do you normally start out conversations this dishonestly? For someone who claims to be interested in the big truths, you're surprisingly negligent with the smaller ones. Or maybe you're just a liar from top to bottom. Probably the latter. You sound like one.

I just put that as I thought it was closest and easiest. But I said I am not any of them because I don't want to be put into a catagory.

The small truths are not truths, you have just taken a huge subject, and nit-picked at some small detail. Completely stupid reply tbh.

[Psykhronic]

Completely stupid reply tbh.

Self-reflection through someone else.

[Alex K]

But as far as I can tell it is just a fan club against religion.

Oh wow you are such a dishonest hack. Please stop insulting my intelligence, would you? I mean, it's not like our comments are *visible* in this very thread and prove you wrong...

If materialism is correct, and this universe is simply a ball of blind matter that happened to spring into existence and then spawn consciousness as pure fluke (scientists are realising this doesn't make any sense) then you have to believe in miracles. Here's why;

If the universe is purely matter, then either;

Something came out of nothing, or
it is infinite.

Oh I see, you are bringing out the standard wrong arguments. Boring.

Define what you mean by "coming" outside the context of a universe with a preexisting timeline. The words you are using, they don't mean anything outside the context of our universe.

The idea of an infinite universe within time and space is a highly illogical one and that has been clear for centuries.

Is that so?

So, if something came out of nothing, then how?

Again, this sentence is meaningless. You've got nothing (no pun indended), your argument only superficially sounds plausible, but is nonexistent.

Well that's a miracle no matter how it happened. And don't give me the theories of multiple universes etc. because it had to start somewhere, and creating multiple universes is an unnecessary complication to the matter.

Not necessarily, because there is some indirect empirical evidence for them, so there may be some justification to bringing them up.

I am interested in the truth

Then I've got a tip for you: stop lying about what the atheists here say.

[Bob101]

I actually know that there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism,

You seem awfully all about 'knowing'. You know what we see is not reality, you know there isn't a logical stand point for Atheism. I have to wonder why someone with such insights is bothering to garner anything from us.

And good luck finding answers about 'not-spacetime', which is where you claimed your adventures in 'truths' lay. If we have no means to measure 'not-spacetime' then you have no means to convince us of anything or any truth regarding such a 'place'.

Exactly!!

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Really? or is that a joke?

Colour does not exist, sound does not exist, hardness or softness does not exist etc. They are merely perceptions. And one form of concious experience.

Words are labels and not reality, we are trapped in the symbolism of our perception that we developed since birth through language and being told what's what.

And more Scientifically, just look into Quantum Physics.

Yeah we perceive things.. which means they do not exist how?

That's interesting coming from an Atheist, because if you beleive our perceptions are real, then also hallucinations and dreams have some realness. Which I think they definitely do, but that's another point.

But really, we know that are perceptions of the material world are not the reality of the material world. It is a dance of particles and energy. Colour and sound are just particles and waves. Pretty simple stuff.