An atheists guide to reality

[Jacob(smooth)]

It seems to annoy some of you to no end that so many atheists manage to enjoy life without being shackled by religious belief. But that's alright, you go on and figure out how my life is meaningless and why I'm supposed to be running around raping and killing, or whatever it is that gives you that warm feeling inside. I'll be over here, enjoying this delicious bowl of ice cream.

Frankly, yes. If I don't start hearing some existential anxt, wailing and gnashing of teeth from you goddless heathens soon, I'm going to be really pissed off!

Now come on, be honest, you're miserable aren't you.

[Whateverist]

It seems to annoy some of you to no end that so many atheists manage to enjoy life without being shackled by religious belief. But that's alright, you go on and figure out how my life is meaningless and why I'm supposed to be running around raping and killing, or whatever it is that gives you that warm feeling inside. I'll be over here, enjoying this delicious bowl of ice cream.

Frankly, yes. If I don't start hearing some existential anxt, wailing and gnashing of teeth from you goddless heathens soon, I'm going to be really pissed off!

Now come on, be honest, you're miserable aren't you.

Okay .. woe is me .. umm .. oh lordy, lordy, lordy. Why did I forsake thee, oh lord? How's that? *gnashs teeth*

[Bittersmart]

Man, that is one short list of pleasures.

Its also a typical list from a theist who wishes to deny value. No mention of love, honour, achievement, duty, help.........

Indeed. People can find pleasure even in rigorous discipline, if that's what you're into. There is a vast spectrum of human experience out there.

[Tonus]

Now come on, be honest, you're miserable aren't you.

*grabs a slice of cheesecake from the fridge*

I will be, in about five minutes.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Frankly, yes. If I don't start hearing some existential anxt, wailing and gnashing of teeth from you goddless heathens soon, I'm going to be really pissed off!

Now come on, be honest, you're miserable aren't you.

Okay .. woe is me .. umm .. oh lordy, lordy, lordy. Why did I forsake thee, oh lord? How's that? *gnashs teeth*

Thank you. That's better. :molified:

Honestly, you have to explain EVERYTHING to these people.

[Mystic]

I think without the spiritual realm, value of ourselves and our concept of ourselves would be based on something that doesn't verify either of those concepts. At the very least, to find meaning, you have to find value in yourself. I find that we do have intuitive sense of value but when thought from perspective that spiritual doesn't exist, it seems it has no basis and is just fabricated in our minds.

[downbeatplumb]

I think without the spiritual realm, value of ourselves and our concept of ourselves would be based on something that doesn't verify either of those concepts. At the very least, to find meaning, you have to find value in yourself. I find that we do have intuitive sense of value but when thought from perspective that spiritual doesn't exist, it seems it has no basis and is just fabricated in our minds.

Yes that's right.

Doesn't make it any less of a thing though. Do I love my children less because I think there is no god? of course not.
Am I less moral than theists? no.

We are social creatures and these attributes: Justice, mercy, love, honesty, honour are all a result of that, not some extra spiritual thing.

[Mystic]

Doesn't make it any less of a thing though.

To me, it seems it does. It seems it's a false concept if it were the case that it had no metaphysical reality to it. That at the very least, our very selves have to be metaphysical that the qualities we attribute to it have some sort of reality, not just an idea. It seems to me the case the idea of it includes that there is an essence behind it, that the value of it, goodness of it, honour of it etc, are properties of some sort of reality, not just in our minds.

I'm not saying Atheists are less moral or anything like that, or value themselves or others less, it's just that when I thought about the issue, this is what I conclude. Therefore I do not myself reconcile.

[Bittersmart]

I think without the spiritual realm, value of ourselves and our concept of ourselves would be based on something that doesn't verify either of those concepts. At the very least, to find meaning, you have to find value in yourself. I find that we do have intuitive sense of value but when thought from perspective that spiritual doesn't exist, it seems it has no basis and is just fabricated in our minds.

Spirits and gods are fabrications of the mind, as well. I suppose we're all in the same boat.

[Angrboda]

Doesn't make it any less of a thing though.

To me, it seems it does. It seems it's a false concept if it were the case that it had no metaphysical reality to it. That at the very least, our very selves have to be metaphysical that the qualities we attribute to it have some sort of reality, not just an idea. It seems to me the case the idea of it includes that there is an essence behind it, that the value of it, goodness of it, honour of it etc, are properties of some sort of reality, not just in our minds.

When it was conceded that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth, that we were not the center of the universe, I'm sure some felt that made being human less than it had been when they believed humanity was at the center of the universe. Did it diminish us some from what we had thought? Perhaps. Perhaps our reasons for doing what we do no longer has cosmic significance. But does that mean it has no significance? Some adjustment of our thinking may be involved, but I think it is throwing the baby out with the bath water to suggest that it must be all or nothing. If our meaning doesn't have intrinsic, inherent existence, that doesn't mean it's completely false and worthless.