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Why does anything at all exist?
#11
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 5:31 am)tor Wrote: Yeah but there are in fact laws there to begin which which spawn something. Why are there laws instead of nothing? Anyway I get it nobody knows. Never mind.

It's not only that nobody knows. Yes, I think nobody knows, but as I tried to say above, there's more to it than that.

(March 13, 2014 at 4:49 am)Rayaan Wrote:
(March 13, 2014 at 4:40 am)Alex K Wrote: What kind of answer would be satisfactory to you?

A satisfactory answer.


Tongue

Very good choice indeed, Sir. I believe I still have some on stock in my behind, let me fetch a pair for you to try on.
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#12
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 5:31 am)tor Wrote: Yeah but there are in fact laws there to begin which which spawn something. Why are there laws instead of nothing? Anyway I get it nobody knows. Never mind.

Now you're hitting on a huge question - what is nothing?

There seems to be an almighty fight going on in physics to define it.

Again according to Krauss this process would happen with no laws governing it, no laws of physics and even no energy as long as the net energy of the process is zero.

Have to remind you though - this is my interpretation of watching a series of videos on youtube. I am not a physicist. You'd be better watching Krauss' stuff on youtube for yourself and deciding from there.

I recommend the universe from nothing one and the worst possible universe one. They are about an hour each I think.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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#13
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 5:13 am)Alex K Wrote: Are you looking for a cause? Then you are out of luck, since cause and effect are only applicable in the macroscopic realm within our universe.

I think it's more accurate to say we lack the ability to observe/measure the effects of any potential events preceding the Big Bang. This is where someone usually jumps in to state something like the Big Bang is t=0 and there is no t<0. The Big Bang is t=0 because we say it is, and it fits with our idea of spacetime, but I think it is wrong to cut off speculation on what existed/happened before The Big Bang because of this designation.

Lacking the ability to answer certain questions doesn't mean the questions aren't valid; such as: Could the singularity that created the universe come from a previous collapsing universe? Are there more than one universe? What caused the singularity? Are there more universe creating singularities? etc.
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#14
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
The universe exists. As we come to understand more of the universe, we are able to draw generalized scientific conclusions which we call laws.

Purpose is generally only assigned to things that are designed. You aren't going to spout off something silly like I.D are you?
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are"-Mewtwo
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”- Voltaire
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus
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#15
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 6:11 am)Cato Wrote:
(March 13, 2014 at 5:13 am)Alex K Wrote: Are you looking for a cause? Then you are out of luck, since cause and effect are only applicable in the macroscopic realm within our universe.

I think it's more accurate to say we lack the ability to observe/measure the effects of any potential events preceding the Big Bang. This is where someone usually jumps in to state something like the Big Bang is t=0 and there is no t<0. The Big Bang is t=0 because we say it is, and it fits with our idea of spacetime, but I think it is wrong to cut off speculation on what existed/happened before The Big Bang because of this designation.

Lacking the ability to answer certain questions doesn't mean the questions aren't valid; such as: Could the singularity that created the universe come from a previous collapsing universe? Are there more than one universe? What caused the singularity? Are there more universe creating singularities? etc.

I don't think that's the problem really (apart from the fact that the singularity is probably and artifact of the classical treatment of GR without quantum phenomena). Whether you can look beyond the t=0 and what is before it does not address the question whether anything is there in the first place imho.
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#16
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 4:37 am)tor Wrote: This is what I want to know.

Why did that question pop into your head so that you wrote it at exactly the time of 8:37 today? Why didn't you ask it at 8:36? Or 8:38? Can you give me an exact reason why you asked it when you did before I try to attempt an answer?

(March 13, 2014 at 5:39 am)max-greece Wrote:
(March 13, 2014 at 5:31 am)tor Wrote: Yeah but there are in fact laws there to begin which which spawn something. Why are there laws instead of nothing? Anyway I get it nobody knows. Never mind.

Now you're hitting on a huge question - what is nothing?

There seems to be an almighty fight going on in physics to define it.

Again according to Krauss this process would happen with no laws governing it, no laws of physics and even no energy as long as the net energy of the process is zero.

Have to remind you though - this is my interpretation of watching a series of videos on youtube. I am not a physicist. You'd be better watching Krauss' stuff on youtube for yourself and deciding from there.

I recommend the universe from nothing one and the worst possible universe one. They are about an hour each I think.

That's easy. Nothing is the absence of everything. Tongue

I haven't read Krauss' book yet but I've watched a number of interviews and some lectures on it. I got'a say, I'm not impressed. When Krauss says "no laws," he's granting that there's some underlying principle by which quantum foams produce any Universes at all. To me, that's a law. Call it a meta-law.

Still, I love everything else Krauss has to say.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#17
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
Science defines "nothing" differently than laymen. So, it is more that something may always have existed, but science hasn't quantified it, yet. Thus, all the "pre Big Bang" notions that are floating about. So "nothing" in the scientific sense doesn't translate to "nothing" as laymen define it.

Oops, I just read others' replies, lol I'm being redundant then. Big Grin
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#18
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
Deidre, I really am at a loss what the scientific notion of nothing is supposed to be. Vacuum, ok, but nothing?
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#19
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 8:22 am)Alex K Wrote: Deidre, I really am at a loss what the scientific notion of nothing is supposed to be. Vacuum, ok, but nothing?

In other words, if there existed no matter, curvature, etc...that would define true physical "nothingness." But, most scientists don't believe that the "Big Bang" occurred from a state of true physical nothingness.
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#20
RE: Why does anything at all exist?
(March 13, 2014 at 4:54 am)tor Wrote: Then I could ask why does quantum physics exist instead of nothing.

(March 13, 2014 at 5:31 am)tor Wrote: Yeah but there are in fact laws there to begin which which spawn something. Why are there laws instead of nothing? Anyway I get it nobody knows. Never mind.
Essentially, neither 'laws' nor 'quantum physics' exist.
They are labels and descriptors we as humans use to describe events we see.
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