Seriously, how is anyone dumb enough to be fat?

[Aractus]

Because your dietary restrictions sound like a prescription for the grave, not something to be enjoyed in our short time here.

I don't have a very restrictive diet. At the moment as I'm not working I can't have unhealthy snacks because I don't burn enough energy, but besides that I eat all my meals - I eat quite large meals, enjoy what I eat, and eat whatever I choose, so I don't see how that's "restrictive". I very rarely feel hungry. When I was working I could eat 1500 calorie lunches every single day and lose weight if I wanted, at the moment I eat much smaller lunches.

I wasn't taught this, I self-developed my eating habits. Perhaps you need perspective? I've never had sugar or sweetener in tea or coffee, I can drink either black or white and I usually drink them white, but then I don't need any coffee to help me get through the day and I only drink it a couple of times a week at the moment. I drink it because I enjoy it, I'd much rather that then need it as some people seem to!

I'm always suspicious when someone's idea of healthy eating assumes I have four stomachs and chew cud. If I'm going to live to see 90, I'm not depriving myself of the simple pleasures in life just so I can see 94. I think you need perspective.

Believe me I know there's a huge difference in how I feel when I'm fit and healthy and this idea that you're going to enjoy life more if you aren't healthy is ridiculous. If I were to order a large pizza tonight I'd save half for tomorrow, and then eat the other half - that means I get to enjoy it twice in moderation, whereas someone fat does the opposite, they'll eat it straight out of the box until they either finish it or can't eat any more before deciding on their portion size or saving any for later. I do it in the correct order, and as a result I get the full enjoyment out of it while not letting the food control me.

[KichigaiNeko]

Good morning Daniel.

Good (WA) morning, Kichi.

Type 2 diabetes can also be caused by a change from a traditional diet. Seems to indicate that it is more DNA driven than anything else.
...
Your reports are a bit on the old side. Is there any new data?

Yes I have, and the more recent data on type-2 diabetes is that the biggest contributor is high visceral fat, with lifestyle factors also being responsible (eg. low physical activity, diets high in fat, diets high in sugar, high blood pressure, overweight in general), type-2 is considered preventable and even more importantly, Prediabetes is considered reversible most of the time and believed to be a medical condition that if left undiagnosed/untreated leads to type-2 (hence the name "prediabetes")

High visceral fat is linked to body shape, and hence DNA, and thus why Indians, South Asians and Africans are at higher risk - so far I've not seen conclusive evidence that links DNA apart from visceral fat to type-2, however it is perfectly possible that other contributors can be genetic as well (eg. high blood pressure).

Have you seen the latest studies with Aboriginals going BACK to more traditional food? I think it was released earlier this year.

No I haven't, however it would be advised that aborigines that want to eat traditional foods do so in a safe way (eg, don't eat the full kangaroo carcass as your ancestors did, much of the meat is not good for you and why most of the meat from roos ends up as pet food).

You do realise that the researchers are questioning everything to do with diet and people. Heard that saturated fats are not the big taboo that causes obesity and heart attacks.

That's right, it's high blood cholesterol that causes strokes and heart attacks (not directly dietary cholesterol or dietary fat).

I think (as a guesstimate) we are talking about roughly 20% of the total planetary population being diabetic?

Oh gosh no, that number would be totally unthinkable! Diabetes is a horrible disease.

---

Has anyone seen this series - Secret Eaters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMFZ2b920As
Don't think it's shown in Australia, but it's pretty funny - and informative. In the above episode the dude cooks his cheese sauce with a block of butter and a block of cheese and then puts cheese on top, and then says "I didn't know it was that unhealthy"! LOL. But also they have an interesting, and quite informative social experiment where they give two groups of people the same dinner, but with one group all the food is left on the dining table to pick at and for the other it's in another room, so if they want more they have to make a conscious choice to get up and go get more. That's really good because it does highlight how our decisions can be affected by what's in front of us, I'm well aware that if I eat at a buffet type dinner I'll eat more - luckily though I am aware of this, but it seems a lot of people aren't aware. I would say though that even though I'm aware I'll eat more I wouldn't necessarily know exactly how much more I would have. But also, in my experience, when I've been to parties etc where people have over-catered, the hosts always put pressure on the guests etc to eat more which is very counter-productive to anyone wanting to diet.

It brings up some good eating habits you should develop - for instance when you cook whether for yourself, your family or for a group, only cook as much as you need for everyone, do not over-cater, and if there are going to be "leftovers" put them away right away so that nobody is tempted to overindulge! Also, if you're dining here, fill your plate up once with your portion and don't keep picking!!

In fact, I think it's the simplest solutions that are the most effective - if you're going to diet properly do this: 1. set a calorie goal, 2. eat three meals every day, 3. eat up to 3 planned snacks every day, 4. do not allow any other snacking outside of what's on your planned list, 5. either don't drink alcohol or be very well aware of the calorie count you're getting from alcohol and limit it accordingly, 6. always use low-fat milk in tea or sugar, use sweetener not sugar and drink water, diluted juice and low-cal softdrinks, don't drink juice except as part of a meal and don't drink non-diet coke/softdrink etc.

Dinner time here mate, with cheese and meat and pasta.

Will get back to you later...WA time on this. It is an interesting topic.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Why is it always about fat people ??? I'm slim and I wanna to be fat . Could we talk about that ?...........no ? ok

[Aractus]

Cato, at the moment my average breakfast looks like this:



Approx 600 calories, and extremely delicious. I'm not exactly sure what I'm meant to be missing out on?

[KichigaiNeko]

Cato, at the moment my average breakfast looks like this:



Approx 600 calories, and extremely delicious. I'm not exactly sure what I'm meant to be missing out on?

Are you sure you are not over eating there Daniel?

[Marsellus Wallace]

---

---

yummyyyy

[KichigaiNeko]

Good morning Daniel.

Good (WA) morning, Kichi.

Type 2 diabetes can also be caused by a change from a traditional diet. Seems to indicate that it is more DNA driven than anything else.
...
Your reports are a bit on the old side. Is there any new data?

Yes I have, and the more recent data on type-2 diabetes is that the biggest contributor is high visceral fat, with lifestyle factors also being responsible (eg. low physical activity, diets high in fat, diets high in sugar, high blood pressure, overweight in general), type-2 is considered preventable and even more importantly, Prediabetes is considered reversible most of the time and believed to be a medical condition that if left undiagnosed/untreated leads to type-2 (hence the name "prediabetes")

This "Pre-diabetes" is a new to me. You could safely say that the total world population is "Pre-diabetic"

High visceral fat is linked to body shape, and hence DNA, and thus why Indians, South Asians and Africans are at higher risk - so far I've not seen conclusive evidence that links DNA apart from visceral fat to type-2, however it is perfectly possible that other contributors can be genetic as well (eg. high blood pressure).

This is where I think the stats have it wrong or at least I will dispute the stats.

Please explain how a fit and healthy person who takes great care as to what they eat ends up with Type2 Diabetes?
(Uncle is the example here...known over a very long period of time.... 40 years)

Have you seen the latest studies with Aboriginals going BACK to more traditional food? I think it was released earlier this year.

No I haven't, however it would be advised that aborigines that want to eat traditional foods do so in a safe way (eg, don't eat the full kangaroo carcass as your ancestors did, much of the meat is not good for you and why most of the meat from roos ends up as pet food).

You do realise that the researchers are questioning everything to do with diet and people. Heard that saturated fats are not the big taboo that causes obesity and heart attacks.

That's right, it's high blood cholesterol that causes strokes and heart attacks (not directly dietary cholesterol or dietary fat).

I think (as a guesstimate) we are talking about roughly 20% of the total planetary population being diabetic?

Oh gosh no, that number would be totally unthinkable! Diabetes is a horrible disease.

No it's not a "horrible" disease Daniel, it's just fucking inconvenient. High cholesterol is also prevalent in menopausal males and females...cholesterol is the precursor to many of the necessary hormones that actually keep you healthy.

---

Has anyone seen this series - Secret Eaters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMFZ2b920As
Don't think it's shown in Australia, but it's pretty funny - and informative. In the above episode the dude cooks his cheese sauce with a block of butter and a block of cheese and then puts cheese on top, and then says "I didn't know it was that unhealthy"! LOL. But also they have an interesting, and quite informative social experiment where they give two groups of people the same dinner, but with one group all the food is left on the dining table to pick at and for the other it's in another room, so if they want more they have to make a conscious choice to get up and go get more. That's really good because it does highlight how our decisions can be affected by what's in front of us, I'm well aware that if I eat at a buffet type dinner I'll eat more - luckily though I am aware of this, but it seems a lot of people aren't aware. I would say though that even though I'm aware I'll eat more I wouldn't necessarily know exactly how much more I would have. But also, in my experience, when I've been to parties etc where people have over-catered, the hosts always put pressure on the guests etc to eat more which is very counter-productive to anyone wanting to diet.

It brings up some good eating habits you should develop - for instance when you cook whether for yourself, your family or for a group, only cook as much as you need for everyone, do not over-cater, and if there are going to be "leftovers" put them away right away so that nobody is tempted to overindulge! Also, if you're dining here, fill your plate up once with your portion and don't keep picking!!

In fact, I think it's the simplest solutions that are the most effective - if you're going to diet properly do this: 1. set a calorie goal, 2. eat three meals every day, 3. eat up to 3 planned snacks every day, 4. do not allow any other snacking outside of what's on your planned list, 5. either don't drink alcohol or be very well aware of the calorie count you're getting from alcohol and limit it accordingly, 6. always use low-fat milk in tea or sugar, use sweetener not sugar and drink water, diluted juice and low-cal softdrinks, don't drink juice except as part of a meal and don't drink non-diet coke/softdrink etc.

Sorry Daniel. But you seem very naive as to what your body wants and needs and how to convey that information. You really are new to this whole body awareness thingy aren't you?

You have not got a fucking clue how to live unless some "master" dictates the rules to you and then claim an 'epiphany' when you find what actually works for you.

Personally I think you eat way to much for some one who is not working at a physical job. I do far more on far less calories (kilojoules) than you and I don't have a 'job' nor do I think my tasks are physical. Shit man! Zen does much more physical work than you and eats far less.

You really are a glutton aren't you?

[Assimilate]

I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions about eating healthy and losing weight. To lose 1lb a week I can eat roughly around 2,100 calories a day. I go with a 40-30-30 diet, which is 40% of carbs, 30% of fat, 30% of protein. To even hit this goal I actually have to force myself to eat more. This is 212g of carbs, 71g of fat, and 159g of protein. To eat healthy isn't to eat little but to pick better options and to hit your macros to support your bodies needs.

[KichigaiNeko]

I feel like there's a lot of misconceptions about eating healthy and losing weight. To lose 1lb a week I can eat roughly around 2,100 calories a day. I go with a 40-30-30 diet, which is 40% of carbs, 30% of fat, 30% of protein. To even hit this goal I actually have to force myself to eat more. This is 212g of carbs, 71g of fat, and 159g of protein. To eat healthy isn't to eat little but to pick better options and to hit your macros to support your bodies needs.

Bolding Mine

This is the main thrust of my argument Asimm. You can have all the stats in the world, and it STILL comes down to you understanding your own body and adapting you dietary intake to keep that body going at peak efficiency.

For Zen and me, we don't need the high caloric (kilojoule) intake that Daniel is utilising. yet we are capable of much physical activity...such is how OUR bodies work. WHY? Haven't a clue but am suspecting DNA/ genetic background holds more answers than anything WHO can come up with.

Over the past 50 years WHO (World Health Organisation) has determined that humans should not eat anything (because of cancer) and certainly should not breathe (because of Oxidising cancer) so one gets to the point of disregarding anything WHO comes up with. Their Idea of an epidemic seems to constitute a paltry 1% of the population of 7.5 billion. WHO really are a useless organisation along with the UN. (imho)

[Assimilate]

It's pretty clear people don't have a clue what their bodily needs are. Males and females obviously different, but if you think Aractus's plate is over doing it for a male you are just being delusional. It maybe to much for a female eating at a 1200 calorie diet looking to lose weight (which around the lowest you should go) unless you like starving yourself on a cellular level.