DESTROY NOAH'S ARK

[Rampant.A.I.]

faith = Faith, just like truth = Truth. Strongly held religious beliefs despite evidence to the contrary are not interchangeable synonyms with well founded belief or faith in demonstrable, falsifiable beliefs like "the sun will appear to rise tomorrow," and it's disingenuous apologetic semantic sleight of hand to claim they are.

Sort of like claiming "we don't know how the universe came to be, therefore Supernatural" is dishonest drivel.

Isn't there already another thread dealing with this? Why do the theists on this board latch on to an idea and then derail every thread with it? This has nothing to do with the OP.

[SteelCurtain]

Like I already stated, I'm fine with the answer "I don't know", but you insist upon posting irrelevant links. Also the since it can't be explained scientifically it can be defined as supernatural.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural

su·per·nat·u·ral adjective \ˌsü-pər-ˈna-chə-rəl, -ˈnach-rəl\
: unable to be explained by science or the laws of nature : of, relating to, or seeming to come from magic, a god, etc.

(bold mine)

Who has ever said that the origins of the universe are unable to be explained by science? Are you seriously stating that it is beyond the realm of science to examine the origins of the universe? What allows you to make this claim? Like I and everyone else has said, just because something hasn't been explained by science doesn't mean that it cannot be explained by science. Are you so desperate about being wrong that you have to define words and concepts differently in order to make your points? Sad, really.

you asked for proof, my point was that if Jesus himself couldn't prove himself to be the messiah, what makes you think I could do any better. Is there evidence? yes. But what I may accept as enough evidence, you may not.

Clearly.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't started one thread on these forums. And I restrict myself to the christianity sub forum

Then why ask the question that started this thread of discussion? Are you ust trolling, then?

Actually my analogy was perfect, sorry it went over your head.

No. It wasn't. And since I explained why it wasn't and you just responded with "neener neener," I'll take that as confirmation of your intellectual density.

Did you forget what you wrote? Here let me refresh you memory.

I sure can begin to dispute something for which there is no evidence. You are showing your profound ignorance on every level.

It is so frustrating to even discuss with people who are so intellectually dishonest. I feel like your only recourse when you match wits with someone is to be as obtuse as possible until they give up because you are not worth the time and effort, then claim victory.
If you are not the dumbest person on the planet, you'd know that I was talking about the evidence for the assertion that the crop circle was left by aliens, not that there was simply zero evidence for anything. That wouldn't make sense at all as an analogy.

The discussion has always been about no evidence. But since you seem confused let's make it simple. can you say with absolute certainty that there is no God?
Yes or no?

Hah. Confused. Please don't give yourself that kind of credit. You do not deserve it.

Nope. I cannot say with absolute certainty that anything doesn't exist. There is NO WAY TO PROVE A NEGATIVE. Can you say with absolute certainty that there isn't a 40 lb pollywog living in the methane lakes on Titan?

[downbeatplumb]

Genesis 7.4 King James bible

For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Do you know what they call it in Scotland when it rains for forty days and forty nights.

---

Summer.

---

[Jacob(smooth)]

The discussion has always been about no evidence. But since you seem confused let's make it simple. can you say with absolute certainty that there is no God? 
Yes or no?

Always nice to see the reasonable doubt argument get an airing.

No, one can't be certain there is no God.

But the fact that someone ascribes a finite but small probability do something does not make that thing likely.

For you huggy, can you be absolutely sure thor does not exist?

[Huggy Bear]

Who has ever said that the origins of the universe are unable to be explained by science? Are you seriously stating that it is beyond the realm of science to examine the origins of the universe? What allows you to make this claim? Like I and everyone else has said, just because something hasn't been explained by science doesn't mean that it cannot be explained by science. Are you so desperate about being wrong that you have to define words and concepts differently in order to make your points? Sad, really.

why do you insist on talking in circles, there is no explanation of what occurred just before the "big bang". The best theory so far is

Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is, there had to be. If you have nothing in quantum mechanics, you'll always get something.

Let's say this is true, how do you know that the rules for quantum mechanics exist outside the universe?

Either it's explained or not, Hoping one day that it may be explained is irrelevant. also, that is not my definition.

It is so frustrating to even discuss with people who are so intellectually dishonest. I feel like your only recourse when you match wits with someone is to be as obtuse as possible until they give up because you are not worth the time and effort, then claim victory.
If you are not the dumbest person on the planet, you'd know that I was talking about the evidence for the assertion that the crop circle was left by aliens, not that there was simply zero evidence for anything. That wouldn't make sense at all as an analogy.

apparently you still don't get it. Here is my original quote after which you responded with your analogy.

You cannot dispute something "for which there is no evidence" with "I don't know". Saying "I don't know" is admitting ignorance. How can you even begin to dispute something from a position of ignorance?

See what I said? How can you dispute something from a position of ignorance? that applies to anything. How can you dispute a math equation if you don't know math? If you happen to find evidence then you are no longer ignorant, now are you?

Nope. I cannot say with absolute certainty that anything doesn't exist. There is NO WAY TO PROVE A NEGATIVE.

Thank you! that was the whole point I was trying to make. if you can't say for certain that God doesn't exist how can you dispute ones belief?

[SteelCurtain]

I'm done here. You've rehashed the same thing over and over, while accusing me of doing it. (Hint: you have quoted that erroneous quote three times, not me.)

If you are ignorant enough to think that I can't evaluate your positive claim while not making one myself, have at it. It's a clearly ridiculous standpoint.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Thank you! that was the whole point I was trying to make. if you can't say for certain that God doesn't exist how can you dispute ones belief?

Because there is a huge gulf between not impossible and reasonable.

Lets say the police turn up at my house. I'm dead on the floor with a caved in skull and my wife is standing with a blood splattered frying pan shouting "i'm glad I killed the bastard".

But later she says that someone came into our house, and clubbed me with the pan. She wrested it off him and hit him with it (quite gently). He ran off but she was sure he would die within moments. The police arrived and she thinks they are here because she hit the intruder. Thus she said "i'm glad I killed the bastard" in relation to HIM and was innocent of my murder.

You can't say for CERTAIN that she didn't kill me.

But you'd surely dispute anyone who believed that she was innocent!

[Minimalist]

can you say with absolute certainty that there is no God?

I can say with absolute certainty that there is no evidence for your fucking god.

[downbeatplumb]

why do you insist on talking in circles, there is no explanation of what occurred just before the "big bang".

Have some theories on what was before the big bang.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php...1614548752

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/septemb...ting-point

By 1982, a couple of years after Guth’s breakthrough, Vilenkin had a realization of his own: The process of inflation had to be eternal, meaning that once it started, it never fully stopped. Inflation might end abruptly in one region of space, such as the one we inhabit, but it would continue elsewhere, setting off a never-ending series of big bangs. Each bang would correspond to the birth of a separate “pocket” universe, which might be pictured as an expanding bubble — one of countless bubbles floating around within the “multiverse,” as it’s sometimes called.

[Esquilax]

Because there is a huge gulf between not impossible and reasonable.

Lets say the police turn up at my house. I'm dead on the floor with a caved in skull and my wife is standing with a blood splattered frying pan shouting "i'm glad I killed the bastard".

But later she says that someone came into our house, and clubbed me with the pan. She wrested it off him and hit him with it (quite gently). He ran off but she was sure he would die within moments. The police arrived and she thinks they are here because she hit the intruder. Thus she said "i'm glad I killed the bastard" in relation to HIM and was innocent of my murder.

You can't say for CERTAIN that she didn't kill me.

But you'd surely dispute anyone who believed that she was innocent!

That's a good start, but to truly reflect Huggy's argument here, we wouldn't just be disputing someone who believed your wife was innocent, but who believed that pirate gremlins came and caved in your skull. Because apparently, not knowing the answer to a question means that we can't identify blatantly impossible answers, or answers for which there is no evidence that agents within that argument even exist.

If you don't know the answer to a thing, you simply can't dispute the existence of pirate gremlins!