REPTILIAN RULERS EXPOSED

[Pippy]

Where do you guys hear this stuff? I am well read about the conspiracy world, I have read Ahmadinejads speeches, I don't see very much literal anti-semitism under the rocks. Unless we are counting disliking Israels policy decisions anti-semitism nowadays...

[Meatball]

Unless we are counting disliking Israels policy decisions anti-semitism nowadays...

Nowadays? People have been claiming that for decades.

I'm not convinced that Ahmadinejad is explicitely anti-semitic either. I'm admittedly not too familiar with his speeches and writings, but from what I've heard, most of his supposed jew-hate can be chalked up as mistranslation and political opposition to the state of Israel.

[Pippy]

Yes. The whole "We don't recognize Israel as a country" thing is personal and political, but not based on some racial hatred. He is tired of having the nuclear arsenal pointed at his country for so many years. And other Arab countries in the vicinity have some pretty good reasons to hold a grudge.

He doesn't hate the Israelite only because of who they are, but more likely (like everything else) because of what they have done to him, and his people.

[Edwardo Piet]

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I have yet to see anyone describe any practical or observable aspect of "spiritual health" that doesn't entirely steal from the definitions of mental and emotional well-being - In fact i would go as far as to say that the word "Spirituality" is an entirely unnecessary re-branding of already existing concepts and serves no purpose other than to muddle up the understanding of what it means to be 'at peace'.

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Ramen to that!!!

EvF

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@ Prabbit (quote in hide tags)

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Well, I really was responding to your phrasing in the form (A) "I believe I have no evidence for p" instead of (B) "I have no evidence for p". The accompaning emoticon means I was teasing you a little with a reference to our earlier discussion.

If you are trying to emphasize your human infallibilty with A, it does not stop there.
For if you do not know anything absolute, than you don't even know absolutely if you are believing you have no evidence. A becomes "I believe that I believe I have no evidence for p" and everybody can see there's infinite regress from there on.

So I think we're in agremeant on the appeal to ignorance, though my preferred phrasing of it reads as follows:

An appeal to ignorance is made when is said (1A) "There is no evidence for p, therefore, not-p" or (2A) "There is no evidence against p, therefore, p".

I think the word "only" in your version has some possible ambiguity to it.[/quote[

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I agree with how you are defining appeal to ignorance. And by your own definition I did not fall into it Do you agree?

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[quote=Prabbit]
I'm interested in spiritual enlightenment as a cultural phenomenon that, like religion, claims absolute truth. However I I'm not a seeker of spiritual enlightenment myself, except when you use it to mean something as broad like 'understanding of the world'. Also I have argued that the word 'spiritual' (not ''spiritual enlightenment') has been since long hi-jacked by religion and mystycism and that it should be reclaimed by reason. Spiritual to me is about contemplative emotion and awareness levels arising in the brain through natural causes. And we should reclaim the term just because it's been abused by religion and mystycism as an argument for the supernatural, as an argument that naturalism does not address certain aspects of existence.

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I basically just agree with you here.


And Prabbit, as for your point on the matter of 'Spiritual Enlightenment', I personally consider it to mean exactly the same thing as 'Enlightenment' since spiritual is so fucking vague it means absolutely fuck-all to me really, (as I said, that's whyI can't stand that word) - so it basically just means 'Enlightenment'!! Hehe.

EvF

[fr0d0]

So spiritual means knowledgeable? Neat!

[Edwardo Piet]

No. Spiritual means nothing (or anything ('whatever it means to you'))

EvF

[TruthWorthy]

I'd say spiritual health could be very practical in the form of moral guidance. I certainly felt that having being failed badly by medical professionals who experimented on me not considering the whole person as it didn't enter their remit as they saw it.

In your understanding 'spiritual health' is directly related to 'moral guidance'? Something which is imposed on an individual level, by parents and education institution. So the Nazi's could say they were living within their moral principles and therefore have a spiritual healthiness in their 'being' . . .
Or is it your opinion that a healthy (overactive) "inner voice" of "morality" is the subjective sign of spiritual health.
I see the concept of spiritual as meaning directly character/personality; health as in functioning effectively. So spiritual health really becomes personality that's practical.

[fr0d0]

I'd say spiritual health could be very practical in the form of moral guidance. I certainly felt that having being failed badly by medical professionals who experimented on me not considering the whole person as it didn't enter their remit as they saw it.

In your understanding 'spiritual health' is directly related to 'moral guidance'? Something which is imposed on an individual level, by parents and education institution. So the Nazi's could say they were living within their moral principles and therefore have a spiritual healthiness in their 'being' . . .
Or is it your opinion that a healthy (overactive) "inner voice" of "morality" is the subjective sign of spiritual health.
I see the concept of spiritual as meaning directly character/personality; health as in functioning effectively. So spiritual health really becomes personality that's practical.

I don't really know what you're saying here TW. 'Imposed' is a loaded qualification. I'd say morality is learned and inspired, and also innate. In Nazi society a certain moral compass was unnaturally imposed. It follows that a person not choosing to follow 'healthy' morals (which is what I'd call Christian morals) would be similarly at risk of skewed morals.

An 'inner voice' is corruptible internally and externally.

[downbeatplumb]

I'd say spiritual health could be very practical in the form of moral guidance. I certainly felt that having being failed badly by medical professionals who experimented on me not considering the whole person as it didn't enter their remit as they saw it.

In your understanding 'spiritual health' is directly related to 'moral guidance'? Something which is imposed on an individual level, by parents and education institution. So the Nazi's could say they were living within their moral principles and therefore have a spiritual healthiness in their 'being' . . .
Or is it your opinion that a healthy (overactive) "inner voice" of "morality" is the subjective sign of spiritual health.
I see the concept of spiritual as meaning directly character/personality; health as in functioning effectively. So spiritual health really becomes personality that's practical.

I don't really know what you're saying here TW. 'Imposed' is a loaded qualification. I'd say morality is learned and inspired, and also innate. In Nazi society a certain moral compass was unnaturally imposed. It follows that a person not choosing to follow 'healthy' morals (which is what I'd call Christian morals) would be similarly at risk of skewed morals.

An 'inner voice' is corruptible internally and externally.

With the bible as an arch corrupting influence.
How much blood has been spilt for that odious tome.

[TruthWorthy]

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I'd say spiritual health could be very practical in the form of moral guidance. I certainly felt that having being failed badly by medical professionals who experimented on me not considering the whole person as it didn't enter their remit as they saw it.

In your understanding 'spiritual health' is directly related to 'moral guidance'? Something which is imposed on an individual level, by parents and education institution. So the Nazi's could say they were living within their moral principles and therefore have a spiritual healthiness in their 'being' . . .
Or is it your opinion that a healthy (overactive) "inner voice" of "morality" is the subjective sign of spiritual health.
I see the concept of spiritual as meaning directly character/personality; health as in functioning effectively. So spiritual health really becomes personality that's practical.

I don't really know what you're saying here TW. 'Imposed' is a loaded qualification. I'd say morality is learned and inspired, and also innate. In Nazi society a certain moral compass was unnaturally imposed. It follows that a person not choosing to follow 'healthy' morals (which is what I'd call Christian morals) would be similarly at risk of skewed morals.

An 'inner voice' is corruptible internally and externally.

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I beg to differ.
A human only becomes what they're exposed to, what they learn through experiences. The moral guidance that is taught, becomes that inner guide to morality which is that little voice. The innate morals are only morals that have become second nature through repeated practice-reinforcement. Obviously bad behaviour will have negative consequences and so will deter a thinking person from repeating such acts; conversely, treating others appropriately will tend to produce 'good' results and reinforces those.
Inspired morals!?
I think the bible is what you mean here. And it is essentially the same thing as being taught to live in a way that was considered to be in accordance with "god's" wishes a long time ago. I call following this uninspired.