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April 28, 2014 at 5:07 pm (This post was last modified: April 28, 2014 at 5:20 pm by lordofgemini.)
(April 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:
(April 28, 2014 at 7:57 am)lordofgemini Wrote: Praying 5 times a day.
Fasting in the months of ramazan
Charity on raw material. 2.5% a year.
Khums: an annual taxation of one-fifth (20%) of all gain. Khums is paid to the Imams or to poor and needy people.
Pilgrimage
Jihad :
Amr-bil-Maroof: calling towards Good
Nahi Anil Munkar: Stopping others from evil acts
Tawalla: expressing love towards Good.
Tabarra: expressing disassociation and hatred towards Evil.
Alright the same questions I asked major before I will ask you.
1. How do you address contradictions like the one made before?
2. If islam is the religion of peace what is with sharia law?
3. What makes the quran different from lets say christianity or hinduism?
4. Is there a end time prophecy in islam if so what are its signs?
5. What about the one thing I heard where Muhammad was in the bible?
I will try my best to answer you questions.
1. Hmmm I don't see a contradiction,
In the first verse it says those who 'believe'
And in second verse its addressing to those who 'disbelived'
2. It seems that there is a lot of misunderstanding amoung non-muslims regarding this topic, so I will give a brief summary
In the Western media, they refer to "Sharia" as if it is some monolithic entity agreed on by all Muslims, IT IS NOT!
Each Western country also has it's own legal system, just as most muslim coutries do.
In every legal system, basically, you have three parts
1) The founding principles(s) (which establishes the basis for the law)
2) The legal code (which is derived from the founding document(s) and legal precedent)
3) An enforcement mechanism( a judges order, based on the legal code)
These three are essential because the founding documents give a basis for the legal code.
The legal code would be useless without an enforcement mechanism, otherwise the legal
code would just be philosopy and not law.
If we use the US as an example,
The founding principles of US law is based on the US Constitution and legal precedent. Legal precedent is derived from the past decisions of the courts. This gives rise to the legal code (Federal, State, County, and City). The legal code is enforced by a court order ( a bench warrent, Supreme Court decision, etc)
When we talk about Islamic Law (Sharia), we are talking about a legal code. The problem is that there are many Islamic groups and nations and many use different documents to form their founding principles, as Western Nations do. A Western Example might be British Common Law. This is used a a founding principle to derive the British legal code whereas in the US, this is used a basis for the US Constitution but the document itself is not used a a founding document. In the West, there is a seperation of Church and State, so religious law is not used explicitly to derive the US legal code, although most of the principles of the Ten Commandments are included in US legal code (although they are not refered to explicitly).
Commonalities in Islamic Law
All Islamic legal codes are claimed by their authors to be derived from the Quran. The problem with this is that most of the legal pronouncements in the Quran are not explicit, but must be derived or interpreted by Scholars who are well versed in the nuances of the Quranic language as well as the Hadith (sayings) and Sunnah (actions) of the Holy Prophet
(pbuh) and in the case of the Jaafari law schools, the Ahl Al Bayt ( peace be upon them).
In Islamic countries, there is not seperation of Church and State so that , in most Islamic countries, founding principles are derived from on or more of the Islamic law schools explicitly(Hanafi, Hanbali, Malikki, Shaafi, Jaafari, and Selifi) as well as non Islamic or secular founding principles. A good example of this is Turkey, where the legal opinions and precedents of Kamal Attaturk are combined with Islamic law to form the Turkish legal code.
Many of the laws of Afghanistan were derived from a reinterpretation of US law, brought in vis a via Karzai, as well as a mix of Selefi legal code. The pronouncement about killing Muslims who convert to Christianity is based on Selefi legal code, which is not accepted by 99% of the Muslims. It is truly astonishing to me how this very tiny minority of muslims seems to get so much media coverage whenever they issue a fatwa (enforcement mechanism) which is not accepted by most muslims and then called 'Sharia'.
3. Well as Muslims we believe that bible was the word of God. Which was over time changed and re written and true word of God was lost and corrupted. Thus having some contradictions in it.
As for Quran it is the same as it was revealed to the prophet (peace be upon him) and not a single letter has been altered. And it is also promised by God that it would be kept safe.
‘’We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Al-Hijr –Stone land-:9)
Quran speaks about a variety of branches of science like: Astronomy, Embryology, Hydrology, Geology, Sociology, Psychology, Oceanography, Law etc. and is including lots of scientific statements (about the universe creation, clouds, mountains, embryology, rains, deep sea, difference between sun and moon, etc) that were validated only recently and were not known in the time of the prophet. No single contradiction found between any of Quran scientific statements and the current scientific findings or discoveries. Quran included correct scientific information on some incidents that are scientifically incorrect in other holy books (e.g. in the bible mentioned that sun was created after the creation of earth Genesis 1:9-19 and vegetation was created before the Sun-Genesis 1:11-13, 14-19).
And this thing I just like anyway
The word sea (bahr) is used 32 times in the Quran. The word bahr is used both for the sea and other waters like lakes and rivers. The word land (berr, yabas) is used 13 times. If we calculate the ratio of 32 to 45 the result is 71.111%.
You may look up in any encyclopedia in the world and see that the lands cover 29% of the earth whereas the seas cover 71% of it.And it rhymes :p
4. Yes there are many prophecies.
Like:
Imam Ali(pbuh) said: ".....When people would forget the prayers, trusts will be betrayed. Lying would be considered lawful. Usury will become common. Bribes would be rampant. Tall buildings would be constructed. Religion will be sold in exchange of worldly gains. Fools will be in power. Advice will be sought from women. Relationships will be broken off. Carnal desires will be widely followed. Bloodshed will be considered a minor matter. Forbearance will be looked upon as weakness and oppression will be considered a matter of pride. Kings and rulers will be sinners and transgressors. Ministers shall be liars. The general public shall be dishonest. The reciters of Quran will be transgressors. False testimony will be acceptable. Sins would be committed openly. Laying false allegations will be a common thing. Sinfulness and rebellion will be rife. The Quran will be looked down upon. Mosques will be decorated. Minarets will be elevated. Evil people would be accorded honor. Rows, instead of displaying unity would present a scenario of strife. Hearts of the people will be distant from each other. Oaths and promises will be readily broken. That which has been promised will come near. Greed for wealth will impel people to take women as partners in business. Voices of the singers will rise up high and they shall find much audience. The lowly people shall become the leaders of the community. Male and female singers shall be procured on payment. The people of this age will curse the people of the past. Women will ride (horses). Women will resemble men and men will resemble women. Witnesses will testify without being asked to do so and other people
without recognizing the truth and in other than religion they will give deep thought and give testimony. World would be given precedence over the hereafter. Apparently they would be like wolves but their hearts will be more rotten than carrion. They shall be stinking and more bitter than aloe. At that time all would say, ‘Hurry up, hurry up. At that time the Baitul Maqdas will be the best place to live in. And a time will come upon the people that everyone will wish to reside in the Baitul Maqdas.”
You can Google signs of day of judgment you will get many of them.
5. Well these are a few verses I found.
Deuteronomy 18:15 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
John 1:25 - And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
Isaiah 29:12 - And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
John 1:21 - And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
The Quran says that he was mentioned by name in the Bible well I guess that much has been lost over the years. But it was still in the bible when prophet (s) was born. There are many traditions stating this. And also like prophets Jesus (peace be upon him) every messenger came with the Same message of God that is Islam. Which by time was corrupted by men.
Some article I read
Not sure about the authenticity but I thought I would share.
Splitting of the Moon.
2. Death of the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.
3. A form of death, which will kill thousands of Muslims. (Understood to refer to the plague of Amwas during the caliphate of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab.)
4. A major fighting in Madinah (understood to refer to the battle of al-Harrah during the caliphate of Yazid, 63 AH).
5. The Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.
6. The Muslim conquest of Constantinople.
7. Two large groups of Muslims will fight in war.
8. A war between the Muslims and a reddish people with small eyes, wearing sandals made of hair (understood to refer to the Mongol Tatar invasion of the Islamic lands.)
9. A peace agreement between the Muslims and non-Muslims from the yellow race (Chinese, Mongols, etc.)
10. Thirty impostors (Dajjaal) will appear, each thinking he is a prophet.
Present
11. Naked, destitute, barefoot shepherds will compete in building tall buildings.
12. The slave-woman will give birth to her master or mistress.
13. A trial (fitnah), which will enter every Arab household.
14. Knowledge will be taken away (by the death of people of knowledge), and ignorance will prevail.
15. Wine (intoxicants, alcohol) will be drunk in great quantities.
16. Illegal sexual intercourse will become widespread.
17. Earthquakes will increase.
18. Time will pass more quickly.
19. Tribulations (fitan) will prevail.
20. Bloodshed will increase.
21. A man will pass by the grave of another and wish he was in the latter’s place.
22. Trustworthiness will be lost, i.e. when authority is given to those who do not deserve it.
23. People will gather for prayer, but will be unable to find an imam to lead them.
Future
24. The number of men will decrease, whilst the number of women will increase, until for every man there are 50 women.
25. The Euphrates will reveal a treasure of gold, and many will die fighting over it, each one hoping to be the one who gains the treasure.
26. The Romans (Europeans) will come to a place called A’maq or Wabiq, and an army of the best people will go forth from Madinah to face them.
27. The Muslim conquest of Rome.
28. The Mahdi (guided one) will appear, and be the Imam of the Muslims.
29. Jesus Christ will descend in Damascus, and pray behind the Mahdi.
30. Jesus will break the cross and kill the swine, i.e. destroy the false Christianity.
31. The Antichrist (al-masih al-dajjal, the false Christ) will appear, with all his tools of deception, and be an immense trial. He will be followed by 70,000 Jews from Isfahan (present-day Iran).
32. The appearance of Ya’juj and Ma’juj (Gog and Magog), and the associated tribulations.
33. The emergence of the Beast from the Earth, carrying the Staff of Moses and the Seal of Solomon, who will speak to the people, telling them they did not believe with certainty in the Divine Signs.
34. A major war between the Muslims (including Jews and Christians who truly believe in Jesus after his return) led by the Imam Mahdi, and the Jews plus other non-Muslims led by the Antichrist.
35. Jesus will kill the Antichrist at the gate of Ludd (Lod in present-day Israel, site of an airport and a major Israeli military base).
36. A time of great peace and serenity during and after the remaining lifetime of Jesus.
37. Wealth will come so abundant that it will become difficult to find someone to accept charity.
38. Arabia will become a land of gardens and rivers.
39. Society will then decay.
40. The buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daws will again sway in circumambulation (tawaf) around the idol Dhul-Khulsah.
41. A great fire in the Hijaz, seen by the inhabitants of Busra.
42. Three major armies will sink into the earth: one in the east, one in the west, and one in Arabia.
43. An Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka’bah.
44. The huge cloud of smoke.
45. The sun will rise from the west (its place of setting).
46. A gentle wind, which will take the souls of the believers.
47. There is no-one left on the earth saying, "Allah, Allah" or "There is no god except Allah."
48. Eventually the Day of Judgment is established upon the worst of the people, who copulate like donkeys in public.
49. The blowing in the Trumpet by the Angel Israfil, upon which everyone will faint except as Allah wills.
50. The second blowing in the Trumpet, upon which everyone will be resurrected.
April 28, 2014 at 5:43 pm (This post was last modified: April 28, 2014 at 5:48 pm by Duke Guilmon.)
(April 28, 2014 at 5:07 pm)lordofgemini Wrote:
(April 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote: Alright the same questions I asked major before I will ask you.
1. How do you address contradictions like the one made before?
2. If islam is the religion of peace what is with sharia law?
3. What makes the quran different from lets say christianity or hinduism?
4. Is there a end time prophecy in islam if so what are its signs?
5. What about the one thing I heard where Muhammad was in the bible?
I will try my best to answer you questions.
1. Hmmm I don't see a contradiction,
In the first verse it says those who 'believe'
And in second verse its addressing to those who 'disbelived'
2. It seems that there is a lot of misunderstanding amoung non-muslims regarding this topic, so I will give a brief summary
In the Western media, they refer to "Sharia" as if it is some monolithic entity agreed on by all Muslims, IT IS NOT!
Each Western country also has it's own legal system, just as most muslim coutries do.
In every legal system, basically, you have three parts
1) The founding principles(s) (which establishes the basis for the law)
2) The legal code (which is derived from the founding document(s) and legal precedent)
3) An enforcement mechanism( a judges order, based on the legal code)
These three are essential because the founding documents give a basis for the legal code.
The legal code would be useless without an enforcement mechanism, otherwise the legal
code would just be philosopy and not law.
If we use the US as an example,
The founding principles of US law is based on the US Constitution and legal precedent. Legal precedent is derived from the past decisions of the courts. This gives rise to the legal code (Federal, State, County, and City). The legal code is enforced by a court order ( a bench warrent, Supreme Court decision, etc)
When we talk about Islamic Law (Sharia), we are talking about a legal code. The problem is that there are many Islamic groups and nations and many use different documents to form their founding principles, as Western Nations do. A Western Example might be British Common Law. This is used a a founding principle to derive the British legal code whereas in the US, this is used a basis for the US Constitution but the document itself is not used a a founding document. In the West, there is a seperation of Church and State, so religious law is not used explicitly to derive the US legal code, although most of the principles of the Ten Commandments are included in US legal code (although they are not refered to explicitly).
Commonalities in Islamic Law
All Islamic legal codes are claimed by their authors to be derived from the Quran. The problem with this is that most of the legal pronouncements in the Quran are not explicit, but must be derived or interpreted by Scholars who are well versed in the nuances of the Quranic language as well as the Hadith (sayings) and Sunnah (actions) of the Holy Prophet
(pbuh) and in the case of the Jaafari law schools, the Ahl Al Bayt ( peace be upon them).
In Islamic countries, there is not seperation of Church and State so that , in most Islamic countries, founding principles are derived from on or more of the Islamic law schools explicitly(Hanafi, Hanbali, Malikki, Shaafi, Jaafari, and Selifi) as well as non Islamic or secular founding principles. A good example of this is Turkey, where the legal opinions and precedents of Kamal Attaturk are combined with Islamic law to form the Turkish legal code.
Many of the laws of Afghanistan were derived from a reinterpretation of US law, brought in vis a via Karzai, as well as a mix of Selefi legal code. The pronouncement about killing Muslims who convert to Christianity is based on Selefi legal code, which is not accepted by 99% of the Muslims. It is truly astonishing to me how this very tiny minority of muslims seems to get so much media coverage whenever they issue a fatwa (enforcement mechanism) which is not accepted by most muslims and then called 'Sharia'.
3. Well as Muslims we believe that bible was the word of God. Which was over time changed and re written and true word of God was lost and corrupted. Thus having some contradictions in it.
As for Quran it is the same as it was revealed to the prophet (peace be upon him) and not a single letter has been altered. And it is also promised by God that it would be kept safe.
‘’We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Al-Hijr –Stone land-:9)
Quran speaks about a variety of branches of science like: Astronomy, Embryology, Hydrology, Geology, Sociology, Psychology, Oceanography, Law etc. and is including lots of scientific statements (about the universe creation, clouds, mountains, embryology, rains, deep sea, difference between sun and moon, etc) that were validated only recently and were not known in the time of the prophet. No single contradiction found between any of Quran scientific statements and the current scientific findings or discoveries. Quran included correct scientific information on some incidents that are scientifically incorrect in other holy books (e.g. in the bible mentioned that sun was created after the creation of earth Genesis 1:9-19 and vegetation was created before the Sun-Genesis 1:11-13, 14-19).
And this thing I just like anyway
The word sea (bahr) is used 32 times in the Quran. The word bahr is used both for the sea and other waters like lakes and rivers. The word land (berr, yabas) is used 13 times. If we calculate the ratio of 32 to 45 the result is 71.111%.
You may look up in any encyclopedia in the world and see that the lands cover 29% of the earth whereas the seas cover 71% of it.And it rhymes :p
4. Yes there are many prophecies.
Like:
Imam Ali(pbuh) said: ".....When people would forget the prayers, trusts will be betrayed. Lying would be considered lawful. Usury will become common. Bribes would be rampant. Tall buildings would be constructed. Religion will be sold in exchange of worldly gains. Fools will be in power. Advice will be sought from women. Relationships will be broken off. Carnal desires will be widely followed. Bloodshed will be considered a minor matter. Forbearance will be looked upon as weakness and oppression will be considered a matter of pride. Kings and rulers will be sinners and transgressors. Ministers shall be liars. The general public shall be dishonest. The reciters of Quran will be transgressors. False testimony will be acceptable. Sins would be committed openly. Laying false allegations will be a common thing. Sinfulness and rebellion will be rife. The Quran will be looked down upon. Mosques will be decorated. Minarets will be elevated. Evil people would be accorded honor. Rows, instead of displaying unity would present a scenario of strife. Hearts of the people will be distant from each other. Oaths and promises will be readily broken. That which has been promised will come near. Greed for wealth will impel people to take women as partners in business. Voices of the singers will rise up high and they shall find much audience. The lowly people shall become the leaders of the community. Male and female singers shall be procured on payment. The people of this age will curse the people of the past. Women will ride (horses). Women will resemble men and men will resemble women. Witnesses will testify without being asked to do so and other people
without recognizing the truth and in other than religion they will give deep thought and give testimony. World would be given precedence over the hereafter. Apparently they would be like wolves but their hearts will be more rotten than carrion. They shall be stinking and more bitter than aloe. At that time all would say, ‘Hurry up, hurry up. At that time the Baitul Maqdas will be the best place to live in. And a time will come upon the people that everyone will wish to reside in the Baitul Maqdas.”
You can Google signs of day of judgment you will get many of them.
5. Well these are a few verses I found.
Deuteronomy 18:15 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
John 1:25 - And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
Isaiah 29:12 - And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
John 1:21 - And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
The Quran says that he was mentioned by name in the Bible well I guess that much has been lost over the years. But it was still in the bible when prophet (s) was born. There are many traditions stating this. And also like prophets Jesus (peace be upon him) every messenger came with the Same message of God that is Islam. Which by time was corrupted by men.
Some article I read
Not sure about the authenticity but I thought I would share.
Splitting of the Moon.
2. Death of the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.
3. A form of death, which will kill thousands of Muslims. (Understood to refer to the plague of Amwas during the caliphate of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab.)
4. A major fighting in Madinah (understood to refer to the battle of al-Harrah during the caliphate of Yazid, 63 AH).
5. The Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.
6. The Muslim conquest of Constantinople.
7. Two large groups of Muslims will fight in war.
8. A war between the Muslims and a reddish people with small eyes, wearing sandals made of hair (understood to refer to the Mongol Tatar invasion of the Islamic lands.)
9. A peace agreement between the Muslims and non-Muslims from the yellow race (Chinese, Mongols, etc.)
10. Thirty impostors (Dajjaal) will appear, each thinking he is a prophet.
Present
11. Naked, destitute, barefoot shepherds will compete in building tall buildings.
12. The slave-woman will give birth to her master or mistress.
13. A trial (fitnah), which will enter every Arab household.
14. Knowledge will be taken away (by the death of people of knowledge), and ignorance will prevail.
15. Wine (intoxicants, alcohol) will be drunk in great quantities.
16. Illegal sexual intercourse will become widespread.
17. Earthquakes will increase.
18. Time will pass more quickly.
19. Tribulations (fitan) will prevail.
20. Bloodshed will increase.
21. A man will pass by the grave of another and wish he was in the latter’s place.
22. Trustworthiness will be lost, i.e. when authority is given to those who do not deserve it.
23. People will gather for prayer, but will be unable to find an imam to lead them.
Future
24. The number of men will decrease, whilst the number of women will increase, until for every man there are 50 women.
25. The Euphrates will reveal a treasure of gold, and many will die fighting over it, each one hoping to be the one who gains the treasure.
26. The Romans (Europeans) will come to a place called A’maq or Wabiq, and an army of the best people will go forth from Madinah to face them.
27. The Muslim conquest of Rome.
28. The Mahdi (guided one) will appear, and be the Imam of the Muslims.
29. Jesus Christ will descend in Damascus, and pray behind the Mahdi.
30. Jesus will break the cross and kill the swine, i.e. destroy the false Christianity.
31. The Antichrist (al-masih al-dajjal, the false Christ) will appear, with all his tools of deception, and be an immense trial. He will be followed by 70,000 Jews from Isfahan (present-day Iran).
32. The appearance of Ya’juj and Ma’juj (Gog and Magog), and the associated tribulations.
33. The emergence of the Beast from the Earth, carrying the Staff of Moses and the Seal of Solomon, who will speak to the people, telling them they did not believe with certainty in the Divine Signs.
34. A major war between the Muslims (including Jews and Christians who truly believe in Jesus after his return) led by the Imam Mahdi, and the Jews plus other non-Muslims led by the Antichrist.
35. Jesus will kill the Antichrist at the gate of Ludd (Lod in present-day Israel, site of an airport and a major Israeli military base).
36. A time of great peace and serenity during and after the remaining lifetime of Jesus.
37. Wealth will come so abundant that it will become difficult to find someone to accept charity.
38. Arabia will become a land of gardens and rivers.
39. Society will then decay.
40. The buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daws will again sway in circumambulation (tawaf) around the idol Dhul-Khulsah.
41. A great fire in the Hijaz, seen by the inhabitants of Busra.
42. Three major armies will sink into the earth: one in the east, one in the west, and one in Arabia.
43. An Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka’bah.
44. The huge cloud of smoke.
45. The sun will rise from the west (its place of setting).
46. A gentle wind, which will take the souls of the believers.
47. There is no-one left on the earth saying, "Allah, Allah" or "There is no god except Allah."
48. Eventually the Day of Judgment is established upon the worst of the people, who copulate like donkeys in public.
49. The blowing in the Trumpet by the Angel Israfil, upon which everyone will faint except as Allah wills.
50. The second blowing in the Trumpet, upon which everyone will be resurrected.
Okay next batch of questions
1. Has any religion taken influence from islam?
2. Are there "muslims" that are not true muslims because they do not follow the quran?
3. Was their only one chosen group of people in the quran like there is in the bible
4. How do you feel about mohammedan theory of man from lower life forms? Does that show evolutionary biology predicted in the quran?
5. Are there specific books in the quran like it is in the bible, or is it all just called the quran as one big book?
6. Is the Illuminati predicted in the quran?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Quote:I find it hard to believe that all these stories around muhammad, the sira, the hadit about his wifes, family and miliary conflict are pure fiction.
How do you feel about the Twelve Labors of Hercules?
Quote: Labor 1: The Nemean Lion
Labor 2: The Lernean Hydra
Labor 3: The Hind of Ceryneia
Labor 4: The Erymanthean Boar
Labor 5: The Augean Stables
Labor 6: The Stymphalian Birds
Labor 7: The Cretan Bull
Labor 8: The Horses of Diomedes
Labor 9: The Belt of Hippolyte
Labor 10: Geryon's Cattle
Labor 11: The Apples of the Hesperides
Labor 12: Cerberus
(April 28, 2014 at 5:43 pm)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:
(April 28, 2014 at 5:07 pm)lordofgemini Wrote: I will try my best to answer you questions.
1. Hmmm I don't see a contradiction,
In the first verse it says those who 'believe'
And in second verse its addressing to those who 'disbelived'
2. It seems that there is a lot of misunderstanding amoung non-muslims regarding this topic, so I will give a brief summary
In the Western media, they refer to "Sharia" as if it is some monolithic entity agreed on by all Muslims, IT IS NOT!
Each Western country also has it's own legal system, just as most muslim coutries do.
In every legal system, basically, you have three parts
1) The founding principles(s) (which establishes the basis for the law)
2) The legal code (which is derived from the founding document(s) and legal precedent)
3) An enforcement mechanism( a judges order, based on the legal code)
These three are essential because the founding documents give a basis for the legal code.
The legal code would be useless without an enforcement mechanism, otherwise the legal
code would just be philosopy and not law.
If we use the US as an example,
The founding principles of US law is based on the US Constitution and legal precedent. Legal precedent is derived from the past decisions of the courts. This gives rise to the legal code (Federal, State, County, and City). The legal code is enforced by a court order ( a bench warrent, Supreme Court decision, etc)
When we talk about Islamic Law (Sharia), we are talking about a legal code. The problem is that there are many Islamic groups and nations and many use different documents to form their founding principles, as Western Nations do. A Western Example might be British Common Law. This is used a a founding principle to derive the British legal code whereas in the US, this is used a basis for the US Constitution but the document itself is not used a a founding document. In the West, there is a seperation of Church and State, so religious law is not used explicitly to derive the US legal code, although most of the principles of the Ten Commandments are included in US legal code (although they are not refered to explicitly).
Commonalities in Islamic Law
All Islamic legal codes are claimed by their authors to be derived from the Quran. The problem with this is that most of the legal pronouncements in the Quran are not explicit, but must be derived or interpreted by Scholars who are well versed in the nuances of the Quranic language as well as the Hadith (sayings) and Sunnah (actions) of the Holy Prophet
(pbuh) and in the case of the Jaafari law schools, the Ahl Al Bayt ( peace be upon them).
In Islamic countries, there is not seperation of Church and State so that , in most Islamic countries, founding principles are derived from on or more of the Islamic law schools explicitly(Hanafi, Hanbali, Malikki, Shaafi, Jaafari, and Selifi) as well as non Islamic or secular founding principles. A good example of this is Turkey, where the legal opinions and precedents of Kamal Attaturk are combined with Islamic law to form the Turkish legal code.
Many of the laws of Afghanistan were derived from a reinterpretation of US law, brought in vis a via Karzai, as well as a mix of Selefi legal code. The pronouncement about killing Muslims who convert to Christianity is based on Selefi legal code, which is not accepted by 99% of the Muslims. It is truly astonishing to me how this very tiny minority of muslims seems to get so much media coverage whenever they issue a fatwa (enforcement mechanism) which is not accepted by most muslims and then called 'Sharia'.
3. Well as Muslims we believe that bible was the word of God. Which was over time changed and re written and true word of God was lost and corrupted. Thus having some contradictions in it.
As for Quran it is the same as it was revealed to the prophet (peace be upon him) and not a single letter has been altered. And it is also promised by God that it would be kept safe.
‘’We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Al-Hijr –Stone land-:9)
Quran speaks about a variety of branches of science like: Astronomy, Embryology, Hydrology, Geology, Sociology, Psychology, Oceanography, Law etc. and is including lots of scientific statements (about the universe creation, clouds, mountains, embryology, rains, deep sea, difference between sun and moon, etc) that were validated only recently and were not known in the time of the prophet. No single contradiction found between any of Quran scientific statements and the current scientific findings or discoveries. Quran included correct scientific information on some incidents that are scientifically incorrect in other holy books (e.g. in the bible mentioned that sun was created after the creation of earth Genesis 1:9-19 and vegetation was created before the Sun-Genesis 1:11-13, 14-19).
And this thing I just like anyway
The word sea (bahr) is used 32 times in the Quran. The word bahr is used both for the sea and other waters like lakes and rivers. The word land (berr, yabas) is used 13 times. If we calculate the ratio of 32 to 45 the result is 71.111%.
You may look up in any encyclopedia in the world and see that the lands cover 29% of the earth whereas the seas cover 71% of it.And it rhymes :p
4. Yes there are many prophecies.
Like:
Imam Ali(pbuh) said: ".....When people would forget the prayers, trusts will be betrayed. Lying would be considered lawful. Usury will become common. Bribes would be rampant. Tall buildings would be constructed. Religion will be sold in exchange of worldly gains. Fools will be in power. Advice will be sought from women. Relationships will be broken off. Carnal desires will be widely followed. Bloodshed will be considered a minor matter. Forbearance will be looked upon as weakness and oppression will be considered a matter of pride. Kings and rulers will be sinners and transgressors. Ministers shall be liars. The general public shall be dishonest. The reciters of Quran will be transgressors. False testimony will be acceptable. Sins would be committed openly. Laying false allegations will be a common thing. Sinfulness and rebellion will be rife. The Quran will be looked down upon. Mosques will be decorated. Minarets will be elevated. Evil people would be accorded honor. Rows, instead of displaying unity would present a scenario of strife. Hearts of the people will be distant from each other. Oaths and promises will be readily broken. That which has been promised will come near. Greed for wealth will impel people to take women as partners in business. Voices of the singers will rise up high and they shall find much audience. The lowly people shall become the leaders of the community. Male and female singers shall be procured on payment. The people of this age will curse the people of the past. Women will ride (horses). Women will resemble men and men will resemble women. Witnesses will testify without being asked to do so and other people
without recognizing the truth and in other than religion they will give deep thought and give testimony. World would be given precedence over the hereafter. Apparently they would be like wolves but their hearts will be more rotten than carrion. They shall be stinking and more bitter than aloe. At that time all would say, ‘Hurry up, hurry up. At that time the Baitul Maqdas will be the best place to live in. And a time will come upon the people that everyone will wish to reside in the Baitul Maqdas.”
You can Google signs of day of judgment you will get many of them.
5. Well these are a few verses I found.
Deuteronomy 18:15 - The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
John 1:25 - And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
Isaiah 29:12 - And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
John 1:21 - And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
The Quran says that he was mentioned by name in the Bible well I guess that much has been lost over the years. But it was still in the bible when prophet (s) was born. There are many traditions stating this. And also like prophets Jesus (peace be upon him) every messenger came with the Same message of God that is Islam. Which by time was corrupted by men.
Some article I read
Not sure about the authenticity but I thought I would share.
Splitting of the Moon.
2. Death of the Prophet Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.
3. A form of death, which will kill thousands of Muslims. (Understood to refer to the plague of Amwas during the caliphate of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab.)
4. A major fighting in Madinah (understood to refer to the battle of al-Harrah during the caliphate of Yazid, 63 AH).
5. The Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.
6. The Muslim conquest of Constantinople.
7. Two large groups of Muslims will fight in war.
8. A war between the Muslims and a reddish people with small eyes, wearing sandals made of hair (understood to refer to the Mongol Tatar invasion of the Islamic lands.)
9. A peace agreement between the Muslims and non-Muslims from the yellow race (Chinese, Mongols, etc.)
10. Thirty impostors (Dajjaal) will appear, each thinking he is a prophet.
Present
11. Naked, destitute, barefoot shepherds will compete in building tall buildings.
12. The slave-woman will give birth to her master or mistress.
13. A trial (fitnah), which will enter every Arab household.
14. Knowledge will be taken away (by the death of people of knowledge), and ignorance will prevail.
15. Wine (intoxicants, alcohol) will be drunk in great quantities.
16. Illegal sexual intercourse will become widespread.
17. Earthquakes will increase.
18. Time will pass more quickly.
19. Tribulations (fitan) will prevail.
20. Bloodshed will increase.
21. A man will pass by the grave of another and wish he was in the latter’s place.
22. Trustworthiness will be lost, i.e. when authority is given to those who do not deserve it.
23. People will gather for prayer, but will be unable to find an imam to lead them.
Future
24. The number of men will decrease, whilst the number of women will increase, until for every man there are 50 women.
25. The Euphrates will reveal a treasure of gold, and many will die fighting over it, each one hoping to be the one who gains the treasure.
26. The Romans (Europeans) will come to a place called A’maq or Wabiq, and an army of the best people will go forth from Madinah to face them.
27. The Muslim conquest of Rome.
28. The Mahdi (guided one) will appear, and be the Imam of the Muslims.
29. Jesus Christ will descend in Damascus, and pray behind the Mahdi.
30. Jesus will break the cross and kill the swine, i.e. destroy the false Christianity.
31. The Antichrist (al-masih al-dajjal, the false Christ) will appear, with all his tools of deception, and be an immense trial. He will be followed by 70,000 Jews from Isfahan (present-day Iran).
32. The appearance of Ya’juj and Ma’juj (Gog and Magog), and the associated tribulations.
33. The emergence of the Beast from the Earth, carrying the Staff of Moses and the Seal of Solomon, who will speak to the people, telling them they did not believe with certainty in the Divine Signs.
34. A major war between the Muslims (including Jews and Christians who truly believe in Jesus after his return) led by the Imam Mahdi, and the Jews plus other non-Muslims led by the Antichrist.
35. Jesus will kill the Antichrist at the gate of Ludd (Lod in present-day Israel, site of an airport and a major Israeli military base).
36. A time of great peace and serenity during and after the remaining lifetime of Jesus.
37. Wealth will come so abundant that it will become difficult to find someone to accept charity.
38. Arabia will become a land of gardens and rivers.
39. Society will then decay.
40. The buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daws will again sway in circumambulation (tawaf) around the idol Dhul-Khulsah.
41. A great fire in the Hijaz, seen by the inhabitants of Busra.
42. Three major armies will sink into the earth: one in the east, one in the west, and one in Arabia.
43. An Abyssinian leader with thin shins will destroy the Ka’bah.
44. The huge cloud of smoke.
45. The sun will rise from the west (its place of setting).
46. A gentle wind, which will take the souls of the believers.
47. There is no-one left on the earth saying, "Allah, Allah" or "There is no god except Allah."
48. Eventually the Day of Judgment is established upon the worst of the people, who copulate like donkeys in public.
49. The blowing in the Trumpet by the Angel Israfil, upon which everyone will faint except as Allah wills.
50. The second blowing in the Trumpet, upon which everyone will be resurrected.
Okay next batch of questions
1. Has any religion taken influence from islam?
2. Are there "muslims" that are not true muslims because they do not follow the quran?
3. Was their only one chosen group of people in the quran like there is in the bible
4. How do you feel about mohammedan theory of man from lower life forms? Does that show evolutionary biology predicted in the quran?
5. Are there specific books in the quran like it is in the bible, or is it all just called the quran as one big book?
6. Is the Illuminati predicted in the quran?
1. Idk to be honest. But what I know is all religions are at least 25% similar.
2. Well if they aren't following to their capacity they are sinning. And if their bad deeds are more than their good deeds they will be punished.
In the Quran Allah says.
"Allah burdens not any soul beyond its capacity. It shall have the reward it earns, and it shall get the punishment it incurs..."
3.Prophet Muhammad(s) was sent for the entire Mankind. Unlike other prophets (peace be upon them)
Allah said:
"And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds."
4. I am little short on time these days so haven't studied this theory.
Any way we as Muslims believe God created the first man from dust/earth.
"Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was."
"And Allah created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop; then He made you mates. And no female conceives nor does she give birth except with His knowledge. And no aged person is granted [additional] life nor is his lifespan lessened but that it is in a register. Indeed, that for Allah is easy."
5. It is a single book with no diffw versions
6. No.
But it does talk about people who have sold their souls to magic and stuff.
"And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, “Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever.” Even then men learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it any one except with Allah’s permission, and they learned what harmed them and did not profit them, and certainly they know that he who bought it should have no share of good in the hereafter and evil was the price for which they sold their souls, had they but known this." [2:101-102]
(April 28, 2014 at 6:49 pm)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote: Some more
1. How do you feel about the scientific advancements of muslims and how the west ignores them?
2. What is heaven like in ilsam?
3. Why is mecca the holy city of islam?
4. Does islam do a 6000 year old universe?
5. Are there different chapters in the quran?
Islams asks us to take part in all walks of life. Islam in no way stops us from learning. There are hadith of the prophet that says
"Learn knowledge from the cradle till the grave"
"Seek knowledge even if you have to go to China, seeking knowledge is a binding on every Muslim"
It is unfortunate the countries with muslim majotities are left behind. But Muslims are still living in the west and working in every field.
2. Heaven cannot be comprehended from the experiences of this world.
The Quran says All our desires will be fulfilled
"Say: (O Muhammad SAW) "Is that (torment) better or the Paradise of Eternity promised to the Muttaqun (pious and righteous persons - see V.2:2)?" It will be theirs as a reward and as a final destination. For them there will be therein all that they desire, and they will abide (there forever). It is a promise binding upon your Lord that must be fulfilled'
The link shows all verses on Paradise if you are interested.
3. Mecca's holiness in Islam arises from the fact that it is here that the prophet Muhammad came to teach the people about Islam; the city is considered as the birthplace of Islam. This city was the home of prophet Muhammad until his death. Mecca is also home to the largest Islam mosque known as the Ka'ba and is also the destination of the Hajj pilgrimage made by Muslims.
Also one of the greater prophet Hazrat Ibrahim (A.s) spent his life time here. It is a mere reminder of these personalities.
Quote:Islam claims that Mecca is an ancient historical city which existed long before Christ, dating as far back as the time of Abraham. A powerful argument against this claim is the absence of any inscriptions found on monuments, or in any archaeological records dating back to those times. The ancient cities and kingdoms of Arabia do have rich histories which survive to this day through monuments, the inscriptions they bear, and in other archaeological documents. These historical records have given archaeologists a highly-integrated and, in some cases, complete record of the names of kings who ruled these cities and kingdoms. These records have also given archaeologists important information about the history of the wars fought over the kingdoms and cities of Arabia. In most cases, inscriptions and monuments in various cities – especially in the western and southwestern portions of Arabia – even give the names of coregents who ruled with the kings. Yet, even with this rich collection of historical and archaeological information, there are no inscriptions or monuments, or other archaeological findings whatsoever, that mention Mecca.
April 29, 2014 at 1:53 am (This post was last modified: April 29, 2014 at 1:57 am by lordofgemini.)
(April 28, 2014 at 8:50 pm)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote: 1. How many wives can you have?
2. I have heard muslims say the quran is older than the bible, is this true to many other muslims?
3. who is the antagonist of islam?
4. was the noahs flood in the quran global or local?
5. how could muhammad write the quran if he couldn't read or right
6. Did muhammad really marry a 9 year old? If so why?
1. You can marry four but then each have to be treated exactly in the same way, which is rather impossible for me. This condition I think is mainly for difficult times when many men die in wars etc.
"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
2. Quran was revealed 1400 years ago.
3. Well non, but in a way the entire world atm.
4. Global
5. Muhammad (pbuh) didn't write it. His executer of will Haxrat Ali (as) wrote it for him whatever was revealed over a period of 22 years. Then later all the different copies of different companions were burned only only one orignal copy which we still use.
As Muslims some believe he couldn't read or write, other believe he could read and write 72 different languages. As per traditions.
One famous saying of the 9th Imam follows: Some one asked, “was the Messenger of God Muhammad ibn Abdullah an illiterate?” Imam replied, “No, the Messenger of God knew 72 languages in which he could read, write and speak.” Some one asked the Imam about the Angels. What are they? The Imam replied, “They are the powers of God that regulate the Universe.”
6. Islam allows marriage when a person is physically matured and mentally. Although the narrations are unauthentic but it is widely accepted she was 9-10. Prophet took her in at an early age because of the insisting of the father of Ayesha. And latter after some years marriage was celebrated. This is what I remember.
(April 28, 2014 at 10:04 pm)Marsellus Wallace Wrote: To lordofgemini : where are you from ?
Why do you ask o.o
Well from the best possible place ever. #sarcasm PAKISTAN:p
![[Image: guilmon_evolution_by_davidgtm3-d4gb5rp.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=orig15.deviantart.net%2F1dbf%2Ff%2F2011%2F319%2F3%2F3%2Fguilmon_evolution_by_davidgtm3-d4gb5rp.gif)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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