Remember christians, the bible is perfect for kids ;)

[Cyberman]

Christianity does not promote violence, a few people who claim to be Christians do violent acts, just as many who claim to be atheist do violent acts.

Then the most generous thing that can be said is that xtianity does not prevent violence.

[MJ the Skeptical]

Christianity does not promote violence, a few people who claim to be Christians do violent acts, just as many who claim to be atheist do violent acts. So you haven't debunked anything other than you having integrity.

False. The bible promotes violence against gay people and other groups of people, in many passages.

I personally object to gays because it goes against nature and God says the act is perverted.

Which is exactly what they would say to a homosexual right before they execute them...You are morally bankrupt, and for what, to genuflect to a made up deity.

You are kidding right, well maybe you are that out of the loop of world events, the news covers this once in awhile. Slave trade for workers and especially in the illegal sex markets. Actually I believe you are not so dense you do not know about this, you conveniently disregard it so you can stay comfortable with it.
Who feed you that bag full of crap and you bought it no less.

How does that have anything to do with Secularism? That's what dense.

Today's church is not responsible for what the church did a thousand years ago, you are still confusing the Catholic church with the Protestant church, you need to define who you are talking about.

But you said Christianity doesn't promote violence and I blew that out of the water. Just another liar for Jeebus huh?

I never said Christians do no wrong, we make our fair share of mistakes and I never said that some Christians do not condone violence, I said Christianity does not and that the church does not, but I know this must be very difficult for you to figure out.

But the religion clearly fucking does promote violence, actually read the fucking book objectively. And Christianity promoted the Nazi movement and vice verse so you might want to tread lightly on this topic lest you want to keep looking foolish.

The only thing you have exposed is your small mind and your bigoted ideas about something you have no idea about.

Says the bigoted retard who's about to say below this that Atheists commit all the crimes you see on TV, which is bullshit since we're only a fraction of the population. And if you look at prison stats it's filled with mostly, what's that? oh yeah, Christians.

When I turn on the news all I see is atheist who kill, rob old women, sell drugs to children, shoot those who try their best to uphold the law, make crack to ruin the lives of families across this country

I would love to see you prove that you little twit. And If you keep wanting to re-write history you might want to work for the Texas board of Education.

and the atheist pedophiles who rape and murder countless innocent children in every city in this country, I could go on but I believe you can see what atheist are doing to this country.

If you want to talk pedophiles you may want to tread even lighter, since pedophiles historically are usually very religious people. Usually the more heinous the crimes against children the more fundamentalist they tend to be.

Now the above, you showing everyone here who is the one who condones violence. If you could get away with it you would probably make it a reality. You do have a talent of talking out both sides of your mouth, truly shameful. In the end we will see who knows how eternity will play out.

Yeah, it's you condoning violence. You completely gloss over what's in your holy book. If you could get away with it, you would huh? So if you stopped believing you would become a rapist murderer.

I have even less respect for you than before. Keep your ass in church so you don't go on a rampage. You are a morally bankrupt automaton, chew on that for awhile.

[Esquilax]

As for the gays, Christians have the right to object to their life style, I did before I was a Christian and I know other non believers that do now. The church does not condone violence upon anyone period.

I can resolve this really easily, GC: what does the bible say you should do with gay people?

It says you should kill them. That's literally the only thing it says. Not "disapprove of them," or "deny them marriage rights," it says you should put them to death.

So yes, perhaps (a mainstream, highly specific version of) the church doesn't condone violence. But it does so by specifically ignoring what the bible, the holy book of the religion supposed to be the direct word of god, says to do.

And there goes the credibility of the church in detailing what god actually wants.

[Cyberman]

I personally object to gays because it goes against nature and God says the act is perverted.

Let's break this down.

"it goes against nature"

In order to falsify this claim, all that needs to happen is to find one animal species besides the human that engages in same-sex acts. Just one and the claim bursts like a balloon.

Shall we try for 1,500?

Homosexuality is a social phenomenon and is most widespread among animals with a complex herd life.

Among the apes it is the females that create the continuity within the group. The social network is maintained not only by sharing food and the child rearing, but also by having sex. Among many of the female apes the sex organs swell up. So they rub their abdomens against each other," explains Petter Bockman and points out that animals have sex because they have the desire to, just like we humans.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

"God says the act is perverted"

Actually, it says that men lying together as they would with women is an abomination, or a detestable act, or similar. No translation I've seen mentions the word "perverted". Put another way, "God" is saying the same thing as GC here - "eww, icky!" though I doubt even GC would go as far as to condone them being put to death.

However, let's not dwell on semantics when there is a larger point at stake. "God" has also been recorded as labelling many other things as abominations, or at the very least objectionable; from sex with - or even looking at - a woman on her period to trimming facial hair, from tattoos to wearing clothes of a wool and linen mix. How many of these commands should we follow, if we're going to be consistent?

Incidentally, aren't these things in the Old Testament - that part of the bible that fluffy Jesus supposedly fulfilled?

Regardless, none of these things represent anything like a guide to morality. They are nothing more than a list of pronouncements about certain specific acts. The trouble with having a list is that inevitably you end up floundering the moment you run across something that's not on the list.

So what's left?

"I personally object to gays"

Yeah, you got nothing but opinion; just the same as if 'gays' (your word) found you personally objectionable.

[Esquilax]

And cue either "when animals do that, it isn't natural," or "oh what, now we're supposed to look to what animals do to see whether it's okay?"

Because I really doubt a christian having this conversation, let alone GC, can ever be trusted to actually follow their own premises for even a second, where it might lead them to admit they might be wrong.

[MJ the Skeptical]

Exactly. The gay gene so to speak is prevalent throughout nature. How can these blind theists call it an unnatural occurrence, especially when they think their god made everything.

[Ryantology]

Today's church is not responsible for what the church did a thousand years ago

No. It is, however, responsible for what it is doing today.

When I turn on the news all I see is atheist who kill, rob old women, sell drugs to children, shoot those who try their best to uphold the law, make crack to ruin the lives of families across this country and the atheist pedophiles
who rape and murder countless innocent children in every city in this country, I could go on but I believe you can see what atheist are doing to this country.

That's funny, do all Christian criminals magically become atheists when they commit a crime or something? Is this the most blatant No True Scotsman fallacy in the history of the thing, unfolding before our very eyes? Because the data proves magnificently that Christians make up a vastly higher percentage of the prison population as compared to atheists. You don't see atheists doing anything. As in so many other things, you see Christians committing crimes left and right and delete it from your narrative because it contradicts your delusion.

[Godscreated]

---

The entire church in the past did not condone violence. There's a lot going on with Christianity in Africa much good, homes, schools, food, medicine, education, wells and much more, yet you can only see a few isolated incidences.
As for the gays, Christians have the right to object to their life style, I did before I was a Christian and I know other non believers that do now. The church does not condone violence upon anyone period.
As for slavery, the secular world is allowing without even complaint the greatest slave trade the world has ever seen, while the Christian church is trying to free as many as possible.
Islam has called for the elimination of the U.S. and the Christians of the world.
Christians do not like all of our past even though we are not actually responsible for it, but you and others are living in a time when plenty can be done about today's slave trade. Christianity is on the move to help these people how will history report the secular world's effort.

GC

---

Okay then name one secular nation that endorses the slave trade. I can name several religious ones.

---

Also what do you mean when you say "The Church"? The close thing to "The Church" is the Catholic church that still accounts for nearly half of all Christians. Yet I doubt you were referring to them

Any and all that are not active in stopping this kind of horrific action and it certainly seems few are considering the amount of selling of humans is going on.

GC

---

Christianity does not promote violence, a few people who claim to be Christians do violent acts, just as many who claim to be atheist do violent acts.

Then the most generous thing that can be said is that xtianity does not prevent violence.

It does but there's no way you would ever admit this.

GC

[Godscreated]

---

Christianity does not promote violence, a few people who claim to be Christians do violent acts, just as many who claim to be atheist do violent acts. So you haven't debunked anything other than you having integrity.

---

False. The bible promotes violence against gay people and other groups of people, in many passages.

All of the Bible does not represent Christianity, I know that might surprise you but it's true, Jesus gave us the way we should live, you should try and understand the things He taught.

I personally object to gays because it goes against nature and God says the act is perverted.

Which is exactly what they would say to a homosexual right before they execute them...You are morally bankrupt, and for what, to genuflect to a made up deity.

Because I believe that practicing gays go against nature and I believe what God teaches about such acts makes me morally bankrupt, yet you would hang a Christian and call it a good deed.

---

You are kidding right, well maybe you are that out of the loop of world events, the news covers this once in awhile. Slave trade for workers and especially in the illegal sex markets. Actually I believe you are not so dense you do not know about this, you conveniently disregard it so you can stay comfortable with it.
Who feed you that bag full of crap and you bought it no less.

---

How does that have anything to do with Secularism? That's what dense.

Christian groups are fighting against the horrific action, the churches are giving money to aid them in their work, so Christianity is fighting against this, so what's left the secular world. That's the part you are associated with.

---

Today's church is not responsible for what the church did a thousand years ago, you are still confusing the Catholic church with the Protestant church, you need to define who you are talking about.

---

But you said Christianity doesn't promote violence and I blew that out of the water. Just another liar for Jeebus huh?

You are getting denser by the day, the only thing you might have possibly blow is your nose. Show me that Christianity promotes violence or quit spewing out such nonsense.

---

I never said Christians do no wrong, we make our fair share of mistakes and I never said that some Christians do not condone violence, I said Christianity does not and that the church does not, but I know this must be very difficult for you to figure out.

---

But the religion clearly fucking does promote violence, actually read the fucking book objectively. And Christianity promoted the Nazi movement and vice verse so you might want to tread lightly on this topic lest you want to keep looking foolish.

If you want to get into history of what Nazi-Germany promoted and what Christianity really is then go ahead, I've been down this path a few times and I will walk quite loudly if you persist. Again Christianity has never promoted violence and never will.

---

The only thing you have exposed is your small mind and your bigoted ideas about something you have no idea about.

---

Says the bigoted retard who's about to say below this that Atheists commit all the crimes you see on TV, which is bullshit since we're only a fraction of the population. And if you look at prison stats it's filled with mostly, what's that? oh yeah, Christians.

I said most crimes are committed by atheist, anyone who is not a believer in Christ is an atheist (my definition). All those I named below can't be Christians, read the scriptures and you might see why, though I know you wouldn't admit it. Just because people call themselves Christian does not make them on, there are spiritual requirements, but as I have said before you do not understand that, not because you're dense but because you are blind. Yes there are many in prison who are Christians, Paul and most of the apostles were in prison, the Christian churches have many prison ministries.

---

When I turn on the news all I see is atheist who kill, rob old women, sell drugs to children, shoot those who try their best to uphold the law, make crack to ruin the lives of families across this country.

---

I would love to see you prove that you little twit. And If you keep wanting to re-write history you might want to work for the Texas board of Education.

I answered this above but so you can hear it again, people who commit those type of terrible acts are not Christians, only those who do not care can do such terrible acts against other human beings, so you see I did not say all atheist were bad people, just the ones who commit those type of crimes.

---

and the atheist pedophiles who rape and murder countless innocent children in every city in this country, I could go on but I believe you can see what atheist are doing to this country.

---

If you want to talk pedophiles you may want to tread even lighter, since pedophiles historically are usually very religious people. Usually the more heinous the crimes against children the more fundamentalist they tend to be.

You want me to quit this discussion don't you, why else would you be trying to warn me away. Being religious and being a Christian can be two very different things, Christ warned about being overly religious, those pedophiles in the Catholic church or any church for that matter are not what they might profess. They belong in jail with no chance of ever getting out, I think it's an injustice to humanity to allow such people to run loose.

---

Now the above, you showing everyone here who is the one who condones violence. If you could get away with it you would probably make it a reality. You do have a talent of talking out both sides of your mouth, truly shameful. In the end we will see who knows how eternity will play out.

---

Yeah, it's you condoning violence. You completely gloss over what's in your holy book. If you could get away with it, you would huh? So if you stopped believing you would become a rapist murderer.

I have even less respect for you than before. Keep your ass in church so you don't go on a rampage. You are a morally bankrupt automaton, chew on that for awhile.

Show me when I have condoned violence, I've shown that you do, well actually it was you who hung yourself by showing everyone what you really are.
I've never asked for your respect nor have I ever expected you would have respect for any believer, if you think you have hurt my feelings think it over again, Christians who come here and stay for as long as I have know we are hated by some so nothing that's said surprises us.
I will always defend my belief in the scriptures, I would be a sorry Christian if I did not, the scriptures do not need defending they stand on the truth that has been subscribed to them by God. So you can go on crying like a baby or man up and realize all people do not see the world through you biased eyes.

GC

---

As for the gays, Christians have the right to object to their life style, I did before I was a Christian and I know other non believers that do now. The church does not condone violence upon anyone period.

I can resolve this really easily, GC: what does the bible say you should do with gay people?

It says you should kill them. That's literally the only thing it says. Not "disapprove of them," or "deny them marriage rights," it says you should put them to death.

So yes, perhaps (a mainstream, highly specific version of) the church doesn't condone violence. But it does so by specifically ignoring what the bible, the holy book of the religion supposed to be the direct word of god, says to do.

And there goes the credibility of the church in detailing what god actually wants.

Let's carry this a bit farther since you seem to miss out on so much scripture says. Christ said for us to love everyone even our enemies, He said love thy neighbor as thy self He called this the second greatest commandment. The first is love the Lord our God and said the second was like the first. If all mankind lived by the two commandments there would be no need for others, this is actually what God wants, detailing done.

GC

---

I personally object to gays because it goes against nature and God says the act is perverted.

Let's break this down.

"it goes against nature"

In order to falsify this claim, all that needs to happen is to find one animal species besides the human that engages in same-sex acts. Just one and the claim bursts like a balloon.

Shall we try for 1,500?

Homosexuality is a social phenomenon and is most widespread among animals with a complex herd life.

Among the apes it is the females that create the continuity within the group. The social network is maintained not only by sharing food and the child rearing, but also by having sex. Among many of the female apes the sex organs swell up. So they rub their abdomens against each other," explains Petter Bockman and points out that animals have sex because they have the desire to, just like we humans.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observced that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

"God says the act is perverted"

Actually, it says that men lying together as they would with women is an abomination, or a detestable act, or similar. No translation I've seen mentions the word "perverted". Put another way, "God" is saying the same thing as GC here - "eww, icky!" though I doubt even GC would go as far as to condone them being put to death.

However, let's not dwell on semantics when there is a larger point at stake. "God" has also been recorded as labelling many other things as abominations, or at the very least objectionable; from sex with - or even looking at - a woman on her period to trimming facial hair, from tattoos to wearing clothes of a wool and linen mix. How many of these commands should we follow, if we're going to be consistent?

Incidentally, aren't these things in the Old Testament - that part of the bible that fluffy Jesus supposedly fulfilled?

Regardless, none of these things represent anything like a guide to morality. They are nothing more than a list of pronouncements about certain specific acts. The trouble with having a list is that inevitably you end up floundering the moment you run across something that's not on the list.

So what's left?

"I personally object to gays"

Yeah, you got nothing but opinion; just the same as if 'gays' (your word) found you personally objectionable.

Those things you mention are biased to the hilt, if I took the time and I'm not for many reasons, I could find the opposite said, like ducks and geese that mate for life. The one statement you made about homosexual animals making better parents, just how did they get to be parents if they are homosexual, are you going to play the artificial insemination. Those ducks and geese that your boy said were homosexual, were most likely ones who lost their mates and become bonded through a mutual need for companionship the instinct for companionship in many animals is very strong. If you think that ducks and geese think like humans you need to worry about losing your mind. I bet you do not even know how a duck is able to get pregnant. If you believe animals will corn hole each other without objection I invite you to come try that with my rottweilers. I'll take pictures so everyone can see the results, wouldn't want to do such an experiment with no evidence to back it up would we.

GC

[MJ the Skeptical]

All of the Bible does not represent Christianity, I know that might surprise you but it's true, Jesus gave us the way we should live, you should try and understand the things He taught.

That's fucking absurd seeing as how the bible does represent christianity.

Because I believe that practicing gays go against nature and I believe what God teaches about such acts makes me morally bankrupt, yet you would hang a Christian and call it a good deed.

I proved you wrong that it was not against nature you dumb fuck. And what kind of god gets mad at you for making you the way he made you. You are morally bankrupt if you follow the teaching that anyone who is not heterosexual deserves to be tortured forever or treated as a second class citizen. Because why not? if you're going to say they belong in hell, why would you want to give them the same rights either... You are morally bankrupt.

Christian groups are fighting against the horrific action, the churches are giving money to aid them in their work, so Christianity is fighting against this, so what's left the secular world. That's the part you are associated with.

Dodging again. What does that have to do with secularism? especially if your god is the one who made evil in the first place...Herp Derp!

You are getting denser by the day, the only thing you might have possibly blow is your nose. Show me that Christianity promotes violence or quit spewing out such nonsense.

You must have never read the bible huh?. Did I not bring up the passages against homosexuality? intellectually dishonest aren't ya? That's the obvious inference from your statement that you're an idiot who's never actually read the bible.

If you want to get into history of what Nazi-Germany promoted and what Christianity really is then go ahead, I've been down this path a few times and I will walk quite loudly if you persist. Again Christianity has never promoted violence and never will.

Even if you were right that it never did, you still can't gloss over the case of the Nazi's right? who were clearly a christian hate group.

I said most crimes are committed by atheist, anyone who is not a believer in Christ is an atheist (my definition).

And you're dead wrong you fucking moron, did you completely ignore my post or what?

I covered how most of the world are theists and how most of the prison population are theists. For the second time, go ahead and try to prove that atheists commit most of the crimes you asshole.

All those I named below can't be Christians,

No true scotsman fallacy. Anyone who does wrong is not a true believer. You are so fallacious.

The fact of the matter is, believers commit the most crime worldwide or state-side and have throughout recorded history. So you might want to tread lightly before you call someone else dense.

read the scriptures and you might see why,

But your god did awful things. So if a believer did awful things it wouldn't be hard to connect the believer's morality to the god's morality.

though I know you wouldn't admit it. Just because people call themselves Christian does not make them on,

Why shouldn't I take them at their word. And it's not up to you to decide who a true believer of any idea is.

there are spiritual requirements, but as I have said before you do not understand that, not because you're dense but because you are blind. Yes there are many in prison who are Christians, Paul and most of the apostles were in prison, the Christian churches have many prison ministries.

And you're too fucking blind to realize that you believe in archaic fairy tales. And too fucking blind to realize that most people in prisons are believers and in fact not atheists like you asserted twice now dishonestly.

I answered this above but so you can hear it again, people who commit those type of terrible acts are not Christians,

So anyone who commits crime is automatically an atheist lol what a dishonest piece of shit you are. I could easily say the corollary and claim anyone who commits crime is a theist because they believe there's a god who can just blanket forgive them for anything they do and that they can do whatever they want without repercussion. And they can do so without saying sorry to the actual person they wronged, which is entirely immoral.

only those who do not care can do such terrible acts against other human beings, so you see I did not say all atheist were bad people, just the ones who commit those type of crimes.

I can guarantee you I value human life more than you do. For example, I don't think you should be tortured forever for not agreeing with me.

You want me to quit this discussion don't you, why else would you be trying to warn me away. Being religious and being a Christian can be two very different things, Christ warned about being overly religious, those pedophiles in the Catholic church or any church for that matter are not what they might profess. They belong in jail with no chance of ever getting out, I think it's an injustice to humanity to allow such people to run loose.

You just claimed atheists were the main suspects of pedophilia in every city and town and/or claimed there was some problem of pedophilia within atheism. And I just debunked that and threw it back in your face that it's in fact the religious folks that tend to rape their kids more often and in more cases overall. But you won't stay on topic, you want to shift to some other topic to avoid your stupidity.

Show me when I have condoned violence, I've shown that you do, well actually it was you who hung yourself by showing everyone what you really are.

You condoned all the violence that was sighted after christianity came to be. And you claimed multiple times that christianity doesn't promote violence when a simple reading of the fucking book fables shows that complete opposite. Nothing but violence and screw-ups from a supposed all powerful, all knowing deity. I don't know where the fuck you get off claiming I condone violence when my worldview is more moral than yours. Mine is based on empathy, you're is based on authority.

I've never asked for your respect nor have I ever expected you would have respect for any believer,

I have respect for plenty of believers. You're just one of the scummier theists I've met.

if you think you have hurt my feelings think it over again, Christians who come here and stay for as long as I have know we are hated by some so nothing that's said surprises us.

What feelings? you're just an automaton to your sky daddy with no free will since this deity supposedly knows everything ahead of time.

I will always defend my belief in the scriptures,

Even if it makes you look like an asshole, gotcha.

I would be a sorry Christian if I did not,

I have way more respect for liberal christians than fundies like you. At least they've evolved a little.

the scriptures do not need defending they stand on the truth that has been subscribed to them by God. So you can go on crying like a baby or man up and realize all people do not see the world through you biased eyes.

They obviously do need defending because not even christian sects can agree on nearly anything. Let alone all other religions and irreligious people who have logical and scientific objections to religious dogma.