The alternative to the living wage.

[Heywood]

[Kitan Etos]

2. A universal basic income.

Second, a universal basic income is simply a system in which the state provides every individual(or their guardians) with a basic income. Enough to enjoy a comfortable, but very modest living. Any income earned or received on top of the Universal basic income is taxed.

I am a fan of this option.

[Heywood]

2. A universal basic income.

Second, a universal basic income is simply a system in which the state provides every individual(or their guardians) with a basic income. Enough to enjoy a comfortable, but very modest living. Any income earned or received on top of the Universal basic income is taxed.

I am a fan of this option.

I am a fan of either option provided the government stays out of the market thereafter(e.g. no minimum wage, etc).

[FlyingNarwhal]

How do we pay for this? I just did a rough calculation of 25,000 (dollars paid per individual) by 300 million (rounded down total population of U.S.) and came up with $7,500,000,000,000 per year. I like the idea, just would like to know how this doesn't put us further in debt.

[Kitan Etos]

I am fairly certain that if everyone made a comfortable wage whereby they could afford to spend money on that which in our current economical situation only some people can enjoy, that eventually debt would no longer be a concern for it would dwindle.

Unless America did the wise thing, which has been done in other countries, by forgetting everyone's debt for a fresh start.

[Jackalope]

Ignoring for the moment that neither alternative is as politically easy to accomplish as a living wage bill (which itself ain't easy).

1. Let's see a realistic example. A 50% tax over 25k is ludicrous, and changing either number would substantially alter how palatable such an scheme would be - as would making the rate progressive. As it stands, it looks very ad hoc. Would you do away with deductions and exemptions? How is unearned income treated? Business income? How are capital gains treated? What consequences do you anticipate?


2. Where's the money coming from? Is the tax code otherwise the same as it is today or something else? Really, the same questions in 1) apply here too.

[Heywood]

How do we pay for this? I just did a rough calculation of 25,000 (dollars paid per individual) by 300 million (rounded down total population of U.S.) and came up with $7,500,000,000,000 per year. I like the idea, just would like to know how this doesn't put us further in debt.

$25,000 is the exemption. A universal basic income would be about half....so now we are talking about 3.25 trillion a year which is close to what we spend now. Because there is no minimum wage, business profits would be higher which translates into even more income for the government to re-distribute. Taxes might still have to be raised, but such a system is not untenable.

---

Ignoring for the moment that neither alternative is as politically easy to accomplish as a living wage bill (which itself ain't easy).

1. Let's see a realistic example. A 50% tax over 25k is ludicrous, and changing either number would substantially alter how palatable such an scheme would be - as would making the rate progressive. As it stands, it looks very ad hoc. Would you do away with deductions and exemptions? How is unearned income treated? Business income? How are capital gains treated? What consequences do you anticipate?


2. Where's the money coming from? Is the tax code otherwise the same as it is today or something else? Really, the same questions in 1) apply here too.

Tax code should very much be simplified with only individual exemptions remaining. Instead of taxing corporate earnings and then taxing dividends. Just tax dividends at the individual rate. Corporate tax rate would be 0 on all profits except those retained by the corporation.

Tax rate would be progressive, I used a flat tax for simplicity. But if you earned $25,000 your effective tax rate would be 0. You have to earn at least $50,000 before your effective tax rate is 50%. You could implement it, so that once you earn above $25,000 the positive tax rate is progressive which taps out at a maximum of 50%. I wouldn't do brackets either. Tax rates should be progressive based on a function and not arbitrary brackets.

[KUSA]

Case 7: John is a lazy motherfucker and doesn't work. He earned 0 dollars in wages. John would get 50% of his exemption or $12,500 paid to him by the government. $12,500 is John's total income for the year. John smokes dope all night and sleeps all day and contributes nothing to society. John is happy and content and thinks anyone that works is a dumb ass.

[Ryantology]

I am a fan of either option provided the government stays out of the market thereafter(e.g. no minimum wage, etc).

Underpaying employers are far from the only problem we all pay for thanks to under-regulated business practices, so this isn't an even trade.

[Heywood]

Case 7: John is a lazy motherfucker and doesn't work. He earned 0 dollars in wages. John would get 50% of his exemption or $12,500 paid to him by the government. $12,500 is John's total income for the year. John smokes dope all night and sleeps all day and contributes nothing to society. John is happy and content and thinks anyone that works is a dumb ass.

20 years ago, I used to think that any who got government money should be put on a bus, shipped out to an onion field, and be forced pick onions to earn their government money.

I no longer see that as the case. The reason I no longer see that as the case is because I don't see the need for everyone to work anymore.

We have so much production capacity.....and that production capacity continues to increase at such a rate, that every year less and less human labor needs to be done to support humanity. It is not implausible that a time will come when no one has to work. Machine labor will be capable of supporting everyone.

So yes...under this system John would be able to sit at home and smoke pot all day....but he is going to have a Spartan existence compared to people who want better and are willing work for better while there is still a need for human labor. Chances are, that even John will pick up odd jobs that pay next to nothing(cause he is a lazy pot smoker who won't command a high wage) to earn a little bread to replace the bong he broke.