The church to end all churches

[Twiger]

Here in Finland about 75% of people are members of the finnish evangelical lutheran church. It has no official status as a state church, but is often referred to as the peoples church, and has some privileges that other religious institutions don´t, for example gathering taxes from its members, ability to marry couples officially and in taking care of public records and cemetaries it´s considered as a public institution. Before year 1923 the only way to separate oneself from this church was to join another prothestant church.
Oh, how the times have changed. Nowadays, resigning from this community is done by couple of clicks on the internet, and the popularity of the ev-luth church is crashing. In face of this unpleasant reality, the church has made quite a few non-trivial compromises. For example, church has allowed women into priesthood and right now gay marriages are being legalized (until now, gays have been allowed to marry, but the name for it has been "registered relationship", not marriage.) Also, the church has given up all its doctrines on hell or damnation. It´s simply not good publicity to tell people the loving father is going to torture them for eternity for their human errors. Now, the church doesn´t take any stand on whether hell exists or not, or is the damnation simply a biological death.
[/size][/font]Interesting development. At some point there must come a state in this evolution of secularism, in which the church will no longer even be a church. I wouldn´t be surprised to see in my lifetime the church becoming just a club for people to gather in, and talk about how everyone agrees to have no opinions or doctrines of anything.
Have others noticed this "only way to stay on top is complete secularism"-development in other places?
Sorry if there are flaws in my english, it´s not my first language.

[ThePinsir]

Ah, changing the word of God at will. How convenient. It's almost as if...it's all a bunch of man-made bull shit?

Who'da thunk...

[Faith No More]

Have others noticed this "only way to stay on top is complete secularism"-development in other places?

Perhaps over in Europe that is how it is, but over here in America, where secularism is being viciously opposed, they tend to double-down on the hellfire and damnation when they feel threatened. Here, telling someone their father is going to hell is considered just being a good Christian, and if that offends you, they tell you to take it up with god.

America is the land where a delusional, stone-age mentality is revered, and spouting religious nonsense is your duty.

[vorlon13]

Maybe we need to issue awards (need a clever name for the statues!) to religions that have moved the most towards irreligion, unreligion, antireligion, etc.

Could be fun, and a great excuse to get dressed up for a night of fun while advancing AF.

[ThomM]

Here in Finland about 75% of people are members of the finnish evangelical lutheran church. It has no official status as a state church, but is often referred to as the peoples church, and has some privileges that other religious institutions don´t, for example gathering taxes from its members, ability to marry couples officially and in taking care of public records and cemetaries it´s considered as a public institution. Before year 1923 the only way to separate oneself from this church was to join another prothestant church.
Oh, how the times have changed. Nowadays, resigning from this community is done by couple of clicks on the internet, and the popularity of the ev-luth church is crashing. In face of this unpleasant reality, the church has made quite a few non-trivial compromises. For example, church has allowed women into priesthood and right now gay marriages are being legalized (until now, gays have been allowed to marry, but the name for it has been "registered relationship", not marriage.) Also, the church has given up all its doctrines on hell or damnation. It´s simply not good publicity to tell people the loving father is going to torture them for eternity for their human errors. Now, the church doesn´t take any stand on whether hell exists or not, or is the damnation simply a biological death.
[/size][/font]Interesting development. At some point there must come a state in this evolution of secularism, in which the church will no longer even be a church. I wouldn´t be surprised to see in my lifetime the church becoming just a club for people to gather in, and talk about how everyone agrees to have no opinions or doctrines of anything.
Have others noticed this "only way to stay on top is complete secularism"-development in other places?
Sorry if there are flaws in my english, it´s not my first language.

More proof that xtianity is a cafeteria religion - they change with the times to remain "fiscally" possible - regardless of the belief.

However - as in many other western european countries - religion is heading toward extinction. ALL religions are having problems with an AGING donor group - the youth are not among those giving or staying. ALl religions are also having a problem with lack of ministry - clergy - causing them to close worship places all over the world.

And while religion is still spreading among the third world - they do not support themselves monetarily - so the church has to cut back on its efforts.

In NY - the Cardinal actually said that the church is not against homosexuals - even when every law prevents homosexuals from participating in the church. But then - he cannot alienate the remaining homosexual clergy who stay one - he has no replacements.

[Lek]

These are all good reasons for the church to be separate from civil government. The problem began when the emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of the Roman empire and the church became corrupted. Jesus stated that his kingdom "was not of this world". His kingdom is not part of the worldly culture, but should be labeled a counter-culture. Once a church starts receiving civil power and government money they fall away from God's purpose and become part of the problem.

[Mystical]

It seems to me, that finding good in organized Christianity is nearly impossible. Based upon this observation and your assertion in another thread that 'we will be known by our fruits', I find it difficult to imagine that you're not diluded.

[Cinjin]

These are all good reasons for the church to be separate from civil government.

You say that, but then you and your fellow sheep will bitch and moan when a Presidential candidate doesn't pray to your useless god or some student doesn't want to say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance.

The problem began when the emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of the Roman empire and the church became corrupted.

Christianity didn't become corrupted when the Roman empire adopted it, it allowed and encouraged corruption.

Jesus stated that his kingdom "was not of this world". His kingdom is not part of the worldly culture, but should be labeled a counter-culture. Once a church starts receiving civil power and government money they fall away from God's purpose and become part of the problem.

Wishful thinking man. History has shown us that Christianity is merely a useful tool for the power hungry ... just like any other religion.

[Minimalist]

Sorry if there are flaws in my english, it´s not my first language.

You did just fine, my friend.

The problem began when the emperor Constantine made christianity the official religion of the Roman empire and the church became corrupted.

Constantine did no such thing. The Edict of Milan granted toleration to all religions and it was not until 380 that Theodosius and the Western Emperor, Gratian, recognized xtianity as the official religion of the empire.

Fuck both of them!

[Mystical]

I was wondering if our resident historian would sniff out the Church college bull shenanigans ^_^