Is Eve in Hell right now?

[Godscreated]

Chances are the Adam and Eve story is actually based upon a set of characters in the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire who collaborated with the Egyptian Pharaoh (the serpent) against the Assyrian/Babylonian Emperor. Remember, the king of Tyre was said to have lived in the Garden of Eden and he got on the wrong side of the Emperor. The Egyptian Pharaohs had a figure of a serpent on their crown.

In essence the Adam & Eve story is just a fictionalized account of a real event that happened to some unnamed ancient political bigwigs. The story is a lot easier to remember as fiction than it wold have been using real names.

After all, only insane people believe that a real snake can talk using human language. Now if it had been a parrot....

You have little understanding of the scriptures, you've proved this over and over. The King of Tyre wasn't in the Garden and there was no snake in the Garden either.

GC

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Chances are the Adam and Eve story is actually based upon a set of characters in the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire who collaborated with the Egyptian Pharaoh (the serpent) against the Assyrian/Babylonian Emperor. Remember, the king of Tyre was said to have lived in the Garden of Eden and he got on the wrong side of the Emperor. The Egyptian Pharaohs had a figure of a serpent on their crown.

In essence the Adam & Eve story is just a fictionalized account of a real event that happened to some unnamed ancient political bigwigs. The story is a lot easier to remember as fiction than it wold have been using real names.

After all, only insane people believe that a real snake can talk using human language. Now if it had been a parrot....

You have little understanding of the scriptures, you've proved this over and over. The King of Tyre wasn't in the Garden and there was no snake in the Garden either.

GC

Oh, sorry! You weren't even close. The Hebrew word for snake (meaning the crawly, slithery reptile) is 'nachash', the same word translated into 'serpent' in Genesis.

As to the King of Tyre being in the Garden, I'm fairly sure you'll find it in Ezekiel, but I can't be arsed to look it up right now.

Anyroad, thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Boru

[Confused Ape]

and there was no snake in the Garden either.

GC

Dictionary Definition Of Serpent

1. A reptile of the order Serpentes; a snake.

1. (Animals) a literary or dialect word for snake

2. (Bible) Old Testament a manifestation of Satan as a guileful tempter (Genesis 3:1-5)

Genesis

3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made.

14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The Bible clearly says that the serpent/snake was a beast of the field. God's curse affected all snakes. If the serpent in Eden was a manifestation of Satan, why did God curse all serpents?

There are dozens of different views on the internet but I'd like to hear your own views.

[Godscreated]

All of God's punishments are just, an omniscient God could do nothing else.

Omniscience would not prevent him from taking any particular action, it only means that he had all of the information he needed in order to act.

His perfect love and justice would, it seems to me that people believe God can do anything He desires, that's not true and scripture reveals this if one would just take the time to search out the truth. God has no desire to do things against who He is.

Nothing stops god from doing something wicked if he chooses, aside from the willingness of others to accept his actions as "good" regardless of what he does. In that sense, his treatment of Eve is "just."

His decisions with Eve were through His just nature, His decisions are made with no regard to what you and I believe. Scripture says God can do no evil because God is not capable of sin.

If we just take the dry facts of the case (so to speak) it is pretty simple and straightforward, IMO: Eve's sin was that she disobeyed god.

Exactly, the act of Eve was disobeying God, that is sin, being outside of God's will is what she did and broke the perfect relationship.

Eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not 'bad' in any other sense than that god told them not to do it, and told them what the penalty would be.

I disagree, if God had not put the Tree off limits through His commandment they would have eventually eaten from it. They then would have the knowledge that would lead to sin eventually, so eating from the Tree would have been disastrous. God had a reason for putting the Tree of limits, to preserve mankind in a sinless state and a continuous relationship with Him unbroken by sin. God placed a penalty on disobeying so they would understand that this specific action would result in wrong doing.

The Bible makes pretty clear that the most important rule is to do as god commands. Adam and Eve did not, and paid the penalty that god promised, with only moderate changes.

What moderate changes, the penalty was death and death they did experience. The ultimate penalty of death was separation in a relationship with the Creator of the universe.

There are two issues with this, as I see it. Boru already covered one of them, in that without the notion of good/evil or right/wrong, Eve could not have understood the ramifications of breaking the rule given by god.

She knew right from wrong, why, because she understood what the punishment meant, that being so she had to understand it was wrong to disobey God. Why would God give them a consequence for disobeying, knowing they did not understand, He wouldn't, just as a parent tells a child that there will be a punishment for disobeying, they know the child understands. Eve couldn't have understood the greater picture, she was not God and could not see the future, she had one simple commandment to obey, it was all she needed to know.

Her only motivation would have been the selfish desire to avoid death, and having that concern removed by the serpent's lie, she was easy prey.

Don't disregard the fact that they spent time each evening with God in the Garden, do you believe they were just passing time, I think God was teaching them many things about Him, things so wonderful we can not begin to understand.
The fear of death wasn't removed from Eve by the serpent, the offer of being like the God they spent time with each evening was more than she was able to resist, self greed overrode her sensibilities to love God, same thing the serpent fell to, only difference is he made his own temptation through self pride.

The second issue I referred to in my first post, which is that the rest of humanity forever and ever would not get the same opportunity that Adam and Eve got-- they would be born in a world that had been twisted to work against them, and with bodies that had been twisted to work against them, to the degree that they could not possibly determine for themselves whether or not they deserved to continue to live.

What do you think salvation is about, it's to have the opportunity to live in a relationship with God forever, same as Adam and Eve had, it cost God a terrible price but, one He was willing to pay for us and in that I believe we can never be grateful enough. It's true man has to pay a price for sin being allowed into the creation, God did not abandon us and payed a greater price to gain a new relationship with us and give us the same chance at eternal life with Him as they had, it's about choice. I want try to influence your thought process about this but, take what I have just presented and compare it to Abraham and Issac and the sacrifice they were going to. The stories are intertwined as threads in a woven carpet. Will talk to you next week hopefully Monday, thanks for the good talk.

GC

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You have little understanding of the scriptures, you've proved this over and over. The King of Tyre wasn't in the Garden and there was no snake in the Garden either.

GC

Oh, sorry! You weren't even close. The Hebrew word for snake (meaning the crawly, slithery reptile) is 'nachash', the same word translated into 'serpent' in Genesis.

As to the King of Tyre being in the Garden, I'm fairly sure you'll find it in Ezekiel, but I can't be arsed to look it up right now.

Anyroad, thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Boru

I only accept cash, I prefer to by my own gifts. The King of Tyre and the Garden of Eden were separated by a few thousand years, making it impossible for him to be in the Garden, which by the way was taken from here long before Tyre existed. Even if it was around during that time there were angels guarding the Garden. If the serpent was already crawling on the ground then what kind of punishment was it for God to give him when He said you will crawl on your belly from now on, you need to get real and use that logic you claim to have, a claim I believe is over rated in your case.

GC

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and there was no snake in the Garden either.

GC

Dictionary Definition Of Serpent

1. A reptile of the order Serpentes; a snake.

1. (Animals) a literary or dialect word for snake

2. (Bible) Old Testament a manifestation of Satan as a guileful tempter (Genesis 3:1-5)

Genesis

3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made.

14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The Bible clearly says that the serpent/snake was a beast of the field. God's curse affected all snakes. If the serpent in Eden was a manifestation of Satan, why did God curse all serpents?

There are dozens of different views on the internet but I'd like to hear your own views.

Simple answer to this, who says God cursed more than the serpent that tempted Eve, God created Lucifer. I do not believe that snakes eat the dust of the ground anymore than a legless lizard. The curse was on one legged creature, no more and no less.

GC

[Cato]

I disagree, if God had not put the Tree off limits through His commandment they would have eventually eaten from it. They then would have the knowledge that would lead to sin eventually, so eating from the Tree would have been disastrous. God had a reason for putting the Tree of limits, to preserve mankind in a sinless state and a continuous relationship with Him unbroken by sin. God placed a penalty on disobeying so they would understand that this specific action would result in wrong doing.

This coming from the guy that earlier said there was no setup.

[Bob Kelso]

I disagree, if God had not put the Tree off limits through His commandment they would have eventually eaten from it. They then would have the knowledge that would lead to sin eventually, so eating from the Tree would have been disastrous. God had a reason for putting the Tree of limits, to preserve mankind in a sinless state and a continuous relationship with Him unbroken by sin. God placed a penalty on disobeying so they would understand that this specific action would result in wrong doing.

This coming from the guy that earlier said there was no setup.

Dammit Cato, that was right in my wheelhouse...

First come, first serve I suppose.

[Confused Ape]

Simple answer to this, who says God cursed more than the serpent that tempted Eve, God created Lucifer. I do not believe that snakes eat the dust of the ground anymore than a legless lizard. The curse was on one legged creature, no more and no less.

GC

So you're saying that the serpent in Eden was actually Lucifer and real snakes in Eden were already without legs? Does that mean Lucifer/Satan has slithered around like a snake ever since he was cursed? If so, why mention snakes in the Genesis account? After all, it would have made more sense to say that Eve was deceived by a fallen angel.

Confused.

[Brakeman]

The Bible clearly says that the serpent/snake was a beast of the field. God's curse affected all snakes. If the serpent in Eden was a manifestation of Satan, why did God curse all serpents?..

Simple answer to this, who says God cursed more than the serpent that tempted Eve, God created Lucifer. I do not believe that snakes eat the dust of the ground anymore than a legless lizard. The curse was on one legged creature, no more and no less.

GC

How disingenuous of you,

3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made.

14 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Clearly if god had been speaking of only that "one" single snake/satan, he would have not spoken about the "seed" phrases.
In addition, if an animal is not evolved to move upon their belly as a snake does, their musculature doesn't withstand the new form of locomotion and the animal dies. If you cut the legs off of your cow, the cow dies, she doesn't just learn to cope with the loss of her legs and start wiggling to and fro.

It's completely childish to put forth such silly apologies forth to make the story sensible. It is so obviously written by an ancient mid eastern goat herder and not some all knowing god.

[Artur Axmann]

Is Eve, from the Adam and Eve story, in hell right now?

She disobeyed god and started the whole sin trend in humans, so did god put her in an everlasting lake of fire?

If she repented, and god forgave and decided that he did want her to live with him forever why did he continue to expel her from his garden and continue to condemn her children?

If she is in hell, does she really deserve it? 6000 years of torture is a pretty stiff sentence served for unwittingly listening to another supreme being that you had no previous reasons to mistrust.

Eve is not in Hell. An allegory imparts spiritual truth ;hardly ever is it geographically or even theologically correct.

[Brakeman]

Is Eve, from the Adam and Eve story, in hell right now?
..

Eve is not in Hell. An allegory imparts spiritual truth ;hardly ever is it geographically or even theologically correct.

Did god tell you this during one of your prayer session conversations with him?

Are you telling us that whenever a bible verse no longer makes sense given the current state of science, it automatically becomes allegory instead of mythical? Why did god give you the magical bible decoder ring that is really correct instead of all of the earlier church fathers and millions of today's fundi's?