Time to fight back: RANT

[rexbeccarox]

From a single actor perspective, yes.

BlackSwordsman conciously chose to move into an immigrant enclave and now bitches about it. Moving is thus a possible action.

From a societal stand point, we can try different approaches. Answering the question of "Why don't they assimilate" will produce better results than "Perhaps they should attempt to make Mexico a better place to live instead of running away like cowards".

One asks why, the other makes a value judgment.

Especially since, from what I gather, BlackSword is a foreigner himself, and chose to move to a neighborhood IN LOS ANGELES!

BSM, if you didn't want to be around Hispanic people or any other ethnic group, possibly the last place you should have ever moved is effing LA! Seriously? Your rant just seems like a racist bitchfest from where I'm sitting.

[Cinjin]

The problems occur however when foreigners come to countries to live and make no attempt whatsoever to adapt to their new surroundings.

The amount of pearl clutching here is ludicrous.

When people immigrate, they don't magically take on attributes of the local culture. Doubly so when surrounded by other immigrants of similar origin.

I've been able to integrate while touring through careful observation and knowledge of the areas history.

And I have no idea how you can port that behavior to others:
1. Most people are not observant.
2. Most people do not like to learn for a variety of reasons.

Why do people immigrate? Most of the time it is for economic reasons.

I live in a super white enclave and the sheer self unawareness displayed in this thread is amazing - I've seen more balanced responses where I live.

Since you do live in a super white enclave your opinion on other people's opinion about living in a foreigner-rich environment carries little weight.
As if people don't have the right to point out the obvious and then make a suggestion to move. I for one, was merely pointing out that I don't choose to live in such a location, even though I actually have in the past ... AND it SUCKED! Napo said the same ... "Move."

Pearl clutching is a fucking bull shit cop out of a remark. As if anyone who has an opinion about living in a neighborhood full of foreigners isn't right in the head somehow. Whats more is this is coming from a guy who lives in WHITE america. Crusade somewhere else, I'm not buying it.

Bemoaning an immigrant collective for not integrating (seriously - how easy is it to learn another language, culture and history?) is like bitching how your neighbor doesn't agree with your politics

No, it's nothing like that. Thats apples and oranges. Your neighbors politics are not going to interfere with your life when everyone in the neighborhood has a different viewpoint. Your neighbor still speaks your language and likely doesn't hate you for being of the same nationality. If your neighbor's republican, he likely still has the same customs as you.

It happens.

Want to change it?

No. That's not what this is about. I was pointing out that the OP should simply MOVE if he is unhappy.

Come up with incentives or ease the transition to your local culture, history, language.

Don't want to pay for that?
Then go fuck yourself - you'll at least be more productive.
Solutions matter. So present them.

You want to admit that you COMPLETELY moved the goal post by implying that we were pushing for some kind of reform? Don't want to do that?
Then go fuck yourself - you'll at least feel mighty on your high-horse.

From a single actor perspective, yes.

BlackSwordsman conciously chose to move into an immigrant enclave and now bitches about it. Moving is thus a possible action.

From a societal stand point, we can try different approaches. Answering the question of "Why don't they assimilate" will produce better results than "Perhaps they should attempt to make Mexico a better place to live instead of running away like cowards".

One asks why, the other makes a value judgment.

Especially since, from what I gather, BlackSword is a foreigner himself, and chose to move to a neighborhood IN LOS ANGELES!

BSM, if you didn't want to be around Hispanic people or any other ethnic group, possibly the last place you should have ever moved is effing LA! Seriously? Your rant just seems like a racist bitchfest from where I'm sitting.

Is that what this is REALLY about?? Somehow, we're all racists because we want to live in a place where we're surrounded by people that share our customs, beliefs and even speak the same language?

[Autumnlicious]

Since you do live in a super white enclave your opinion on other people's opinion about living in a foreigner-rich environment carries little weight.

That's like saying "Because you're white you have no opinion"

I have an opinion -- blow off.

As if people don't have the right to point out the obvious and then make a suggestion to move. I for one, was merely pointing out that I don't choose to live in such a location, even though I actually have in the past ... AND it SUCKED! Napo said the same ... "Move."

Yeah, I said that too. And?

Pearl clutching is a fucking bull shit cop out of a remark. As if anyone who has an opinion about living in a neighborhood full of foreigners isn't right in the head somehow. Whats more is this is coming from a guy who lives in WHITE america.

Some point in your family tree, the same use of "foreigner" (used as an epithet) applied to your relatives.

It's pretty ridiculous to demand foreigners suddenly behave like whites now, isn't it?

Crusade somewhere else, I'm not buying it.

Your statement implies that there is a foreigner problem, which begs the question what to with it...

No, it's nothing like that. Thats apples and oranges. Your neighbors politics are not going to interfere with your life when everyone in the neighborhood has a different viewpoint.

It's not something you can change. That was my point. Woosh.

Your neighbor still speaks your language and likely doesn't hate you for being of the same nationality.

I'm doubtful of that for one of my neighbors. In Oakland, I did get hate for being white in a mixed neighborhood. Hate from other Americans. Glad I moved away.

If your neighbor's republican, he likely still has the same customs as you.

I don't assume what happens at other people's houses. And neither should you.

No. That's not what this is about. I was pointing out that the OP should simply MOVE if he is unhappy.

Then why did you get huffy over the thought of "crusading"?

I was heading off the "Immigrants should assimilate and learn the language rabble rabble rabble".

You want to admit that you COMPLETELY moved the goal post by implying that we were pushing for some kind of reform? Don't want to do that?

Let's see -- you frothe at the mouth about "foreigners"!

How was that not framing "foreigners" as a problem?

Seriously, I am having trouble reconciling your views here -- you rail about "foreigners":

However, when entire neighborhoods and even cities are overrun with foreigners who have absolutely no interest in adopting or even making an effort to incorporate the customs of the foreign nation they reside, the native-born citizens of that city quickly begin to feel as though it is they who live in a strange, unwelcoming and even hostile place.

I guess you're totally cool with a overrunning problem!

Then go fuck yourself - you'll at least feel mighty on your high-horse.

You know what. Fuck it. I didn't intend for you to get upset with the preceding quote. I don't care too much to escalate this further.

[rexbeccarox]

Is that what this is REALLY about?? Somehow, we're all racists because we want to live in a place where we're surrounded by people that share our customs, beliefs and even speak the same language?

How do you get that from what I said... at all? I don't even know what to say right now...

[Losty]

Can I interrupt just to say...you guys are sexy when you argue like that...

[Cinjin]

You know what. Fuck it. I didn't intend for you to get upset with the preceding quote. I don't care too much to escalate this further.

WHAT THE ?!?!
You didn't intend to upset anyone when you wrote this?!?

Come up with incentives or ease the transition to your local culture, history, language.

Don't want to pay for that?
Then go fuck yourself - you'll at least be more productive.
Solutions matter. So present them.

You changed my post into some sort of anti-immigration rant by telling me (and perhaps Napo) that I should "come up with some incentives to ease the transition to your local culture" and THEN told me to go fuck myself if I didn't want to solve a problem that I NEVER said needed to be solved!
I was explaining why someone would feel stress and anxiety by being surrounded by foreign people mostly because it was said by a couple other members that the foreigners had nothing to do with his situation. I found that to be erroneous. THAT is why I posted, nothing more.

I'm not upset because we have opposing viewpoints, I'm upset because you came down like a hammer for no god damn reason.
Read my post. YOU are the aggressor here.

[Autumnlicious]

WHAT THE ?!?!
You didn't intend to upset anyone when you wrote this?!?

I had something a lot more vitriolic there at the end.

I decided that it wasn't worth escalating over.

I suspected you got all huffy over my piece earlier (which I directed mainly at BlackSwordsman) due to suspicion that I was calling you racist.

I don't think you're racist. I do think you're overly critical of "foreigners" but offer little to help them annoy you less.

You changed my post into some sort of anti-immigration rant by telling me (and perhaps Napo) that I should "come up with some incentives to ease the transition to your local culture" and THEN told me to go fuck myself if I didn't want to solve a problem that I NEVER said needed to be solved!

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

The tenor, focus of your posts dealt solely with portraying a threat. The overrunning of America by foreigners.

So I spoke plainly on reducing that threat.

Frankly, I'd rather reduce the annoyances of "foreigners" as a whole. And I'd like to make their introduction to the American melting pot a lot nicer.

I was explaining why someone would feel stress and anxiety by being surrounded by foreign people mostly because it was said by a couple other members that the foreigners had nothing to do with his situation. I found that to be erroneous. THAT is why I posted, nothing more.

I understand. In French Polynesia I felt pretty naked and stressed out. I spent more time wondering if I was committing faux pas than I spent observing sand crabs.

I'm not upset because we have opposing viewpoints, I'm upset because you came down like a hammer for no god damn reason.

I'm irritated because you and others bark about being annoyed, irked, made uncomfortable in your own country, but no one wants to propose a better solution than "move out".

From a single actors perspective, like BSM moving into a predominantly latino community, moving is a good idea.

But should we always be forced to move? I don't think so.

[Cinjin]

I do think you're overly critical of "foreigners" but offer little to help them annoy you less.

IF (and that's a big IF that you put in my mouth) I was to help foreigners, it would be in the form of foreign aide and education so that they can stay in their own country and simply become welcome tourists in our country rather than residents.

Frankly, I'd rather reduce the annoyances of "foreigners" as a whole. And I'd like to make their introduction to the American melting pot a lot nicer.

I'm irritated because you and others bark about being annoyed, irked, made uncomfortable in your own country, but no one wants to propose a better solution than "move out".

These are your hangups - not mine. I resent your use of the word bark - as if to imply that I was ranting and raving about foreigners. If you'll refer to my original post, I very calmly explained my position and what a reasonable solution could be. It was you who blew it COMPLETELY out of perspective and made your own view a requirement of everyone else.

From a single actors perspective, like BSM moving into a predominantly latino community, moving is a good idea.

But should we always be forced to move? I don't think so.

Fine. Than say it that way. Had you had the slightest consideration for a trivial viewpoint instead of telling people to fuck themselves who don't agree with your wish to solve what is truly an unsolvable quagmire of social and economic behavior, this give & take of ours would never have happened.

[Mister Agenda]

Moving does not solve anything, and shame on those who made such an unsympathetic comment.

I am no patriotic 'Murican, but damned if I am going to sit by and allow the Spanish culture turn the country in their sway. It is not our fault that Mexico is a horrible place to live. Perhaps they should attempt to make Mexico a better place to live instead of running away like cowards.

Are you 100% Native American, by any chance? Because otherwise, you might want to think on that a little more.

---

Moving does not solve anything, and shame on those who made such an unsympathetic comment.

Sounds like the same annoying statement I heard from Bush lovers every time I bitched about him. I've heard similar statements from Jebus lovers I've had to live around most of my life. "You don't like it then move!" Ick. It is a weak statement that I've grown to loathe. I don't have a solution for you, but hopefully you'll figure out something that works for you and yours without having to break the bank and relocate.

There's a big difference between suggesting that someone move to a different country and suggesting they move to a different neighborhood.

[rexbeccarox]

Is that what this is REALLY about?? Somehow, we're all racists because we want to live in a place where we're surrounded by people that share our customs, beliefs and even speak the same language?

How do you get that from what I said... at all? I don't even know what to say right now...

I'm sorry to harp on this, but I respect you, Cin, and I'm fully taken aback by you saying that to me. I didn't say anything like what you accused me of, and I'd kind of like an apology.