Evidence In Exchange

[Cyberman]

Real Nice. The person that sends ME a warning for violating a rule that I clearly didn't violate proceeds to personally attack me with these images.

Then report them. Think of it as a prayer, but one that will actually be heard and answered.

[Eye of God]

IIRC doesn't that argument lean heavily on an appeal to emotion...at it's core? So what if god is a horrible parent, or seems to be in a less than favorable light against your own actual parents. Maybe thats because god is a shitty parent, a real bastard.....but that doesn't have anything to say on whether or not god exists or whether it is wise to worship him (in and of itself). It's more an issue of getting "the other side" to have an emotional reaction, an internal experience that is persuasive to them. The feeling of disgust for a bastard of a dad...for example, and it's effects. (can you see how that might be applied to missionary work btw? threats of hell designed to induce fear.....and it's hoped for effect of salvation, just as one example)

I don't think you were experiencing rational thought or temptation on this one. It seems more likely that you rationalized an emotional reaction(can you see how that might be applied to your belief in the first place?).

Well, just cause you don't think what I experienced is what you think it is, doesn't mean it didn't happen the way I claim. Even if I am wrong about the temptation and it wasn't Satan as you claim, than I'm still going to operate on the side of caution. I'm not about to threaten my own faith and the love of my Savior simply because I want to entertain a wild idea.

[Jackalope]

The unintentional irony is palpable in this one.

[The Grand Nudger]

Of course I don't think that pixies are in your head bud, but that doesn't mean that you haven't had the experience, and it takes alot for me to call bs on somebody on this one. If "erring on the side of caution" is interchangeable with "not utilizing reason" (as you explained so well)...then aren't you endangering yourself every time you manage to produce a single cogent thought? I simply see no way to hedge against risk with that being the case. How do you manage to do your taxes without threatening your faith and love? How do you decide which tv set is better than the other at Best Buy? By what means do you determine the appropriate manner of dress for your days activities? How have you decided which words and in what order to respond to me with...or even the contents of my posts so that you might respond?

It just seems....well..unworkable. It seems to me that you are taking on much more risk then you seem to be aware of/prepared for. The man who builds dykes to stop an earthquake is not erring on the side of caution, he is actively participating in his own demise -provided with any other option-.

[Silver]

From the false dilemma of the poll, I understood that I did not have to read the original post to know how ignorant and fallacious it is.

[Eye of God]

Of course I don't think that pixies are in your head bud, but that doesn't mean that you haven't had the experience, and it takes alot for me to call bs on somebody on this one. If "erring on the side of caution" is interchangeable with "not utilizing reason" (as you explained so well)...then aren't you endangering yourself every time you manage to produce a single cogent thought? I simply see no way to hedge against risk with that being the case. How do you manage to do your taxes without threatening your faith and love? How do you decide which tv set is better than the other at Best Buy? By what means do you determine the appropriate manner of dress for your days activities? How have you decided which words and in what order to respond to me with...or even the contents of my posts so that you might respond?

It just seems....well..unworkable. It seems to me that you are taking on much more risk then you seem to be aware of/prepared for.

How do I distinguish when to use reason and logic? Very easily.
My taxes don't question the authority of God. Buying a TV doesn't question the love of my Savior Jesus Christ. Deciding on most of the days random activities is not going to bring into question my faith in God. It's just that simple.

Like I said, logic and reason were given to me to make use of, not to question the Almighty. Satan knows how to use them against me, so I simply guard against it.

[The Grand Nudger]

How do I distinguish when to use reason and logic? Very easily.
My taxes don't question the authority of God. Buying a TV doesn't question the love of my Savior Jesus Christ. Deciding on most of the days random activities is not going to bring into question my faith in God. It's just that simple.

Why not, in all three cases, you have just stated that satan uses our logic and reason to tempt us, and that you are cautious about this temptation. Each of those things requires their use, they would therefore be doorways for devils, would they not? Isn't talking on this forum just some random days activities? Didn't you mention that you had been tempted by comments here before? Doesn't seem like something you can just make contradicting claims about, and then wave them off saying "it's just that simple".

Like I said, logic and reason were given to me to make use of, not to question the Almighty. Satan knows how to use them against me, so I simply guard against it.

Gaurding ones self against cogent thought ensures only inanity and incoherence. "Having clear, well-worked thoughts is dangerous, I therefore guard against them" ??????

late edit: I'm starting to see why the appeal to god as a parent affected you. The way you seem to have conceptualized reason makes it seem like a loaded pistol that god the father handed to his human toddlers. If it makes you feel any better, I don't think that reason is as deleterious as you've described, so god the parent is off the hook on the loaded gun issue this go round.

[Tonus]

If "erring on the side of caution" is interchangeable with "not utilizing reason" (as you explained so well)...then aren't you endangering yourself every time you manage to produce a single cogent thought?

I'm thinking that he's pretty safe.

[Esquilax]

God gave us logic and reason in order to grow our intelligence and succeed on this planet, not to undermine Him and destroy our own faith. Satan has a hand in that too. He's very clever and can use the logic and reason that God gave you to work against your beliefs. The two must remain separate.

God's pretty stupid, then, to give us a tool that's so useful and powerful in our lives, and then to ensure that the use of it leads us to the conclusion he doesn't exist. That's either the work of an idiot, or a deliberate ass.

As for Satan, what, god's not strong enough to make sure that logic and reason lead to god anyway, instead of to satan? I mean, come on.

Real Nice. The person that sends ME a warning for violating a rule that I clearly didn't violate proceeds to personally attack me with these images.

I just want to get this clear: Napo posts a silly picture joking that you suck cock (not the joke I would have made, because I don't think there's anything inherently demeaning about blowjobs, but hey) and it's a personal attack. Okay, got that.

So... what is it when you post comment after comment saying that we're all going to be tortured forever by what you believe to be the creator of the universe because we're all so awful? And in a thread you created specifically for that purpose, at that? With a poll at the top designed to manipulate us into victim blaming ourselves?

That's not a personal attack?

Oh no, you're right. If you'd said any of that to us in person, without any mention of your god, it'd probably be more rightly categorized as a verbal assault, or a threat. That's much better, right?

Now, consider the fact that we don't think your god exists, and suddenly from our perspective "his will" looks exactly like "your will," doesn't it?

Just try looking at what you're doing from our perspective.

My taxes don't question the authority of God. Buying a TV doesn't question the love of my Savior Jesus Christ. Deciding on most of the days random activities is not going to bring into question my faith in God. It's just that simple.

How do you know god doesn't have specific tax preferences, favored TV brands, or say, a fondness for strawberry milk over chocolate? How do you know Satan isn't tricking you into merely thinking that all these day to day activities aren't questioning god, using your logic and reason? See, you've already allowed for the idea that the thoughts you come to can be manipulated for nefarious ends, doesn't it seem rather arbitrary to draw the line there? Couldn't the prince of lies be subtle enough to trick you into thinking he's not tricking you, by being tricky?

[The Grand Nudger]

Aren't we devoting an awful lot of thought to trying not to think about it by this point in the discussion.........

-throws salt over his shoulder, smears grease on the windowsills-

(i have a theory about that btw boys..the salt and grease..demons are clumsy fuckers with high blood pressure, probably because they've got the rage)