I love religion!

[Zagreus]

Ok, slightly silly thread title, but it'll do.

I joined this site a while ago, but haven't joined in yet as I've not found much in this section that isn't four pages or so long that I can be bothered to go through in detail; so I thought I'd start one here and see where that takes me.

I'm an atheist who is fascinated by religion, and I am also very keen to empathise with religious views, and regard them with much value. Someone like Dawkins attacks faith at a literalist base value, and it come across, to me, that he has no imagination and doesn't actually know what he's talking about regarding the complexities of religious belief.

To understand many people's religious ideas it is vital to at least see things from their perspective, in order to understand the idea; almost like 'extreme philosophy' whereby you have to get your head totally around something that makes no sense to you.

All religion has an intrinsic value; by this I don't mean the herd mentallity of simple dogmatic religion, but that religion itself is a necessary part of our nature. Simply put it cannot be separated from our species, when regarded from any perspective, be that anthropological, historical, social, psychological, archaeological, etc.

So, as the title says, I love religion, and think that many (maybe most) atheists don't know what they are talking about when criticising the ideas.

[LukeMC]

Hey! I hope this is a nice introduction for you.

Simply put it cannot be separated from our species, when regarded from any perspective, be that anthropological, historical, social, psychological, archaeological, etc.

In what sense are you religious?

[Rhage]

So, as the title says, I love religion, and think that many (maybe most) atheists don't know what they are talking about when criticising the ideas.

I can't agree with you here. If you had taken the time to read the threads that you referred to, you would see that the people here are VERY well versed on the subject of religion and gods.They have taken the time to educate themselves to the point of intimidation. LOL Seeing how well versed they are on said subjects sometimes leaves nothing else to be said because you would only be bemoaning the point, and less eloquently so.

So no, I don't agree that most atheists don't know what they are talking about when they criticize these ideas. I think that the people here are brilliant and you may just learn something by being "bothered" to read old threads.

[LEDO]

Zag, I even wrote a book on the origins of the Bible and religion. Don't dis me here in front of my homeys.

[Retorth]

Hello Zag,

While I applaud your decision on taking a more "fair" approach towards your stance on religion, I believe most of us, if not all here, have seen way too much violence involving religion to be bothered to give it's possible "good" a second thought.

I'm not saying the non-religious have never contributed to violence, but religion further divides a race already divided by so many other factors that its doing much more damage then good, in my opinion.

Re

[Violet]

Zag, I even wrote a book on the origins of the Bible and religion. Don't dis me here in front of my homeys.

Ooh, what's it called?

[Zen Badger]

Well, Religion makes me laugh.....

If nothing else.

[Violet]

Well, Religion makes me laugh.....

If nothing else.

Yes... nonesense can have that effect The rest of the time it just confuses me

[Zagreus]

Hey! I hope this is a nice introduction for you.

In what sense are you religious?

Thanks. I did actually introduce myself a few months ago, but have been sporadically lurking rather than contributing so far. This thread was kind of to stop me doing that!

I’m not religious at all, I just find religious history and theology interesting. I used to be a religious studies teacher, and just like chatting to people about the subject.

I can't agree with you here. If you had taken the time to read the threads that you referred to, you would see that the people here are VERY well versed on the subject of religion and gods.They have taken the time to educate themselves to the point of intimidation. LOL Seeing how well versed they are on said subjects sometimes leaves nothing else to be said because you would only be bemoaning the point, and less eloquently so.

I wasn’t referring to the people on this forum necessarily when I said some don’t know what they are talking about; I’ve just seen religion and god discussions on other forums go down very similar lines and the comments are quite like those that kids I used to teach used. I wouldn’t be here if I thought no one knew what they were talking about. I’m here to discuss and hopefully learn. I also join in on a religion forum, where there are at least two very knowledgeable atheists and an extremely well read agnostic. Atheists often have a tone about them that they are right, and religious people are just being silly (Dawkins is extremely guilty of this, which is why I’m not that keen on his ideas), and I’ve noticed that tone on forums. I was getting at the fact that I think that attitude is wrong.

As I said above, I have been lurking, and have actually read quite a few threads. I was being a bit flippant with the ‘can’t be bothered to trawl through ten pages’ comment. I just didn’t want to repeat old ground by saying something on page 11 that I’d missed on page 2.

So no, I don't agree that most atheists don't know what they are talking about when they criticize these ideas. I think that the people here are brilliant and you may just learn something by being "bothered" to read old threads.

It’s not necessarily that they don’t understand, but they go for lowest denominator. “If God exists, why does He allow suffering?” God isn’t simply a philosophical concept, and isn’t disproved by these methods. I stand on the side that there is no evidence for God, so I don’t believe, but the argument can work the other way; there isn’t any definite proof God doesn’t exist either.

Whilst it is possible for the universe to have come about by chance, thus removing the necessity for a creator, that still leaves the option for deity who got things going. I’m playing devil’s advocate there, but I hope you get the gist of what I’m meaning.

Most of the atheist objections I see are attacking the idea of the Abrahamic judgmental God, this deity being a beardy man up in the sky, but do people really think that’s what mystics are talking about? I don’t agree with literalist interpretations of religious ideas, but I can also see the ideas are more complex than mere philosophical word play. Logically, bumble bees shouldn’t be able to fly, but they do. In the same way, logically, by criticising the ontological or cosmological theory God shouldn’t exist, but that does not necessarily mean a deity doesn’t exist.

Again, I wasn’t criticising people here, and I’m sure I will learn some new stuff.

Zag, I even wrote a book on the origins of the Bible and religion. Don't dis me here in front of my homeys.

Ooh, what's it called?

I wanted to ask this too. I’d be interested to read it (I might even already have a copy!)

[Zen Badger]

But Zagreus,

Most fundementalists Christians DO believe in an adult version

of Father Christmas living up in the sky.

They even take the Creation myth seriously.

If you want proof go to answersingenesis.com(which I am ashamed to say was

started by an Australian) where they perform the most amazing mental gymnastics

in order to "prove" Creation true.