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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm by Chas.)
(October 2, 2014 at 11:52 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (October 2, 2014 at 11:31 am)Chas Wrote: No, you are not getting it. At some point during pregnancy, the fetus becomes viable. At that point it is another human being and has rights, too.
Is it OK for a woman to abort 1 hour before delivery? 1 day? 1 week?
When?
That is absurd 'logic'. The fetus is not making a choice. It is helpless and not responsible for even its existence.
Is your argument that a fetus may be aborted right up to the moment of birth?
Well this isn't an issue of a fetus making a choice, its about the state making laws that violate the bodily autonomy of a woman. The law can't force her to be the life support system for anyone else. And yes, she could choose to terminate the pregnancy an hour before birth, though that termination of the pregnancy wouldn't result in the death of the baby, as it would be (usually) a c-section. Again this isn't an issue of when it becomes a human or when it becomes viable, its an issue of bodily rights.
Nope. It was within her power to not get pregnant or to abort before there is a viable fetus - another person.
Once there is another person's life at stake, her rights do not trump those rights. If she doesn't abort before viability, she has made her choice.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 12:52 pm
I can see where you're coming from, and I know a lot of people hold that opinion as well, I just see it in a different way.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 12:55 pm
(October 2, 2014 at 12:52 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I can see where you're coming from, and I know a lot of people hold that opinion as well, I just see it in a different way.
You see a woman's control over her body more important than another person's life?
The control she had the right to exercise for months and didn't?
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Yes. The law can't force someone to use his/her body against his/her will. And the inverse of your question would be, you see the rights of one person (the baby) to be more important than the rights of another (the mother)?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:05 pm
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2014 at 1:06 pm by Chas.)
(October 2, 2014 at 12:57 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yes. The law can't force someone to use his/her body against his/her will. And the inverse of your question would be, you see the rights of one person (the baby) to be more important than the rights of another (the mother)?
The mother had the opportunity to exercise her rights and didn't. She made her choice.
It's not like she woke up one day and realized she was eight months pregnant.
I see one person's right to life as more important than another's right to choice when that choice has already been made.
I am completely pro-choice up to the point of viability. After that, the woman has made an irrevocable choice.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:07 pm
Alrighty. Suppose we just disagree on that.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:10 pm
(October 2, 2014 at 1:07 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Alrighty. Suppose we just disagree on that.
Sure. What other human life do you consider disposable?
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:11 pm
 I don't think that's fair Chas.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:13 pm
(October 2, 2014 at 1:05 pm)Chas Wrote: (October 2, 2014 at 12:57 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yes. The law can't force someone to use his/her body against his/her will. And the inverse of your question would be, you see the rights of one person (the baby) to be more important than the rights of another (the mother)?
The mother had the opportunity to exercise her rights and didn't. She made her choice.
It's not like she woke up one day and realized she was eight months pregnant.
I see one person's right to life as more important than another's right to choice when that choice has already been made.
I am completely pro-choice up to the point of viability. After that, the woman has made an irrevocable choice.
Does it make a difference if the culture the woman lives in keeps pressuring her to keep the child?
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 2, 2014 at 1:22 pm
(October 2, 2014 at 1:11 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I don't think that's fair Chas.
Why not? You are willing to dispose of a human life for some ideological reason.
I want to know what other human lives your ideology defines as disposable.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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