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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 10:17 am
(October 4, 2014 at 10:01 am)Chas Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 1:33 am)Losty Wrote: Yes. No person has the right to another person's body even if they need it to survive. My body is mine, and mine alone, and no one has any rights over it but me. Not ever under any circumstances.
No rights are absolute. One person's rights are limited by other people's rights.
The definition of when a fetus becomes a person is the crux of the abortion question. Once it is a person, the woman's right to autonomy is trumped by the baby's right to life.
If personhood is defined as starting at birth, then you can abort up to that last moment.
If personhood is defined at some earlier point, then you can't.
I disagree no one else's right to life trumps my right to my body. Why should a fetus be granted special rights that other people are not given?
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 10:27 am
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2014 at 10:27 am by Chas.)
(October 4, 2014 at 10:17 am)Losty Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 10:01 am)Chas Wrote: No rights are absolute. One person's rights are limited by other people's rights.
The definition of when a fetus becomes a person is the crux of the abortion question. Once it is a person, the woman's right to autonomy is trumped by the baby's right to life.
If personhood is defined as starting at birth, then you can abort up to that last moment.
If personhood is defined at some earlier point, then you can't.
I disagree no one else's right to life trumps my right to my body. Why should a fetus be granted special rights that other people are not given?
The fetus has not chosen to do anything at all - but you have.
You've had more than six months to exercise your autonomy. However, by not exercising it you made a choice. The decision was yours all along - until there is another person.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2014 at 10:38 am by Losty.)
You don't get to limit my rights to my body. The fetus hasn't made a choice, but its mere existence is violating my right to my body. No other person has a right to my body. Whether they're intentionally or unintentionally invading my body is not relevant. I have had years to make all the choices regarding my body, and you cannot take that right just because there's a person living inside me against my will.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 10:48 am
(October 4, 2014 at 10:36 am)Losty Wrote: You don't get to limit my rights to my body. The fetus hasn't made a choice, but its mere existence is violating my right to my body. No other person has a right to my body. Whether they're intentionally or unintentionally invading my body is not relevant. I have had years to make all the choices regarding my body, and you cannot take that right just because there's a person living inside me against my will.
You made the choice - you are the one who has limited your right.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 10:51 am
(October 4, 2014 at 10:48 am)Chas Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 10:36 am)Losty Wrote: You don't get to limit my rights to my body. The fetus hasn't made a choice, but its mere existence is violating my right to my body. No other person has a right to my body. Whether they're intentionally or unintentionally invading my body is not relevant. I have had years to make all the choices regarding my body, and you cannot take that right just because there's a person living inside me against my will.
You made the choice - you are the one who has limited your right.
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 11:03 am
(October 4, 2014 at 10:51 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 10:48 am)Chas Wrote: You made the choice - you are the one who has limited your right.
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.
And insisting that your right to autonomy is greater than a right to life doesn't make it true.
The decision to continue to be pregnant is yours until the fetus you created becomes a person. Then it isn't that simple.
Choices have consequences - practical and ethical.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2014 at 12:43 pm by Losty.)
(October 4, 2014 at 10:48 am)Chas Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 10:36 am)Losty Wrote: You don't get to limit my rights to my body. The fetus hasn't made a choice, but its mere existence is violating my right to my body. No other person has a right to my body. Whether they're intentionally or unintentionally invading my body is not relevant. I have had years to make all the choices regarding my body, and you cannot take that right just because there's a person living inside me against my will.
You made the choice - you are the one who has limited your right.
Chas, get real. By insisting that I make a choice within your time frame you are limiting my rights to my body. Whatever reason I might have for waiting is my business. There's no point in a woman's pregnancy that you get to tell her "oh sorry you made the choice not to abort so no until birth your body is an incubator property of the state". My body is mine and mine alone. I am the only one who gets to make choices regarding my body and I am the only one who gets to decide when I make the choices.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 1:04 pm
I agree Losty that it's your body and your choice alone. That doesn't free you from the decision and it's effect. I make no comment on that. That's for you to work out.
So you're against any law which says you can't abort before birth? That's very unusual. I would agree that personhood doesn't begin before birth.
(Yes I meant that abandoning/ giving away a baby is quite acceptable.)
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 2:30 pm
(October 4, 2014 at 10:17 am)Losty Wrote: (October 4, 2014 at 10:01 am)Chas Wrote: No rights are absolute. One person's rights are limited by other people's rights.
I disagree no one else's right to life trumps my right to my body. Why should a fetus be granted special rights that other people are not given?
Yeah, what about my rights to the territory I stake out with my sperm-flags. I'm not sure a woman has any right to just yank them out.
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RE: Abortion/Consciousness/Life
October 4, 2014 at 2:32 pm
Spermflags. My new favorite term.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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