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(July 24, 2014 at 11:07 pm)Endo Wrote: On the whole, yes. I can say that evolution is a scientific fact. I'm not denying that. Put in that specific light, I agree 100%.
However, there are numerous claims made by scientists all the time that fall under the banner of evolution. Some of these pan out, some don't. Thus, I am hesitant to say that every claim under the name EVOLUTION made by scientists is indeed a FACT.
Please allow me to explain my thought process here, it's lead to some apparent self-contradiction on my part.
Theory: A claim or statement. This specific meaning of theory stems from the connotation that the common person has; "It's JUST a theory," equivalent to a hypothesis, an untested thought that could possibly explain something, but is otherwise unsubstantiated by evidence.
(Scientific) Theory: The "true" meaning of the word theory, as used by scientists and in the scientific process, a thoroughly tested and backed up claim or statement. Small holes or caveats are acceptable (seen in various attempts at refining various cosmological theories that are otherwise at odds into a Grand Unified Theory) are acceptable, as the theory is able to make relatively accurate, testable predictions and calculations.
[hide]Fact: For me, any claim that I can make based upon my own observations. The wall next to me is white. Fact.
Assuming my sensory facilities are operating properly and in correct context, I am able to verify observations and their continuity, making an observation a fact. If I were to see the wall at night, I would not assume that "The wall is white" is no longer factual, because the lights would be out, and my eyes would not be operating under the correct context. If I were to see the wall as being red tomorrow, then I must assume 2 things: Either the fact is discontinuous, or my observations must be in error. The latter would be quite disconcerting, but I have had the wonderful fortune of not experiencing that yet. If a person were to tell me that the white wall were painted over by workmen to be red, then that would be a questionable and testable claim, but the wall would be observed to be red, and if observed to be red tomorrow, then I could say that the wall is red. The original color of the wall could be called into question, but if it was white for more than one observation, then it is highly plausible that the wall was in fact, painted over. So, for an observer of the wall's painting, it would indeed be a fact, but for me, the painting of the wall would be a scientific THEORY.
In this way, a scientific theory is just one increment of "truthiness" below a personally observed fact for me. I hold scientific theories (evolution included) in high regard and consider properly vetted theories worthy of that term just as viable in making statements about the universe and nature as my own observations.
Welcome back! I don't remember you from before, but I was traveling a lot last year...
You're wrong in saying a scientific theory is a "claim". Rather, it's a series of explanations and predictions. Maybe you should start a thread about it; we're not supposed to get debate-y in the Intro forum
Yes, I suppose this is quite debatey, much more that I wanted to have here.
July 25, 2014 at 4:32 am (This post was last modified: July 25, 2014 at 4:33 am by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(July 24, 2014 at 10:38 pm)Endo Wrote: Erm... no. Evolution has secured a place of respect and trust in my mind as a scientific theory with notable factual evidence, but being theory does not make it fact. And this is in regards of the scientific definition and qualifications necessary for a "theory", not the commonplace connotations of the word "theory" often tossed around as "It's JUST a theory". "It's the best explaination we've got at the moment" means just that to me, nothing more.
It appears I did not address that, despite being a notable part of the first discussion. Here's hoping I didn't leave anything else important out.
Can we just go ahead & start calling it the Law of Evolution? I don't see any soft-headed people trying to deny gravity & we know less about it than evolution.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
(July 25, 2014 at 4:32 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: It's a theory that explains a fact.
This bothered my ear too. Theories account for facts. Evolution accounts for a bushel of facts far better than any alternative theory. To my mind a fact is something you could record as an observation. It has nothing to do with my confidence in the theory. I am totally down with evolution.
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