Is Sam Harris becoming a pariah for the anti-religious cause?

[Mudhammam]

[The Grand Nudger]

Never heard of the man. He has opinions though eh? Fancy that...lol.

[Mudhammam]

Never heard of the man. He has opinions though eh? Fancy that...lol.

Yeah, I understand that his opinions don't reflect on anyone else, per se. Again, I say "per se" because in the way that atheism is perceived, oftentimes under the umbrella of it's most successful proponents (Harris, Dawkins, Krauss, etc.; these guys sell a lot of books, so their opinions do matter to many), I think/hope someone should/will push back...and honestly, we shouldn't leave it to the religiously-inclined to make the rational case against Israel's war crimes and for a peaceful Palestine here.

[Cato]

I have no problem with Harris' arguments.

I also think you mischaracterize the role of Hamas in Gaza. Hamas is not interested in the liberty and well being of the Palestinians there, they are interested in power. Israel has committed to relieving import restrictions, but rightly asks for the internationally supervised demilitarization of Gaza. I think many people forget why the border crossings are closed and a blockade was put into effect to begin with.

I also don't understand the reflexive demand in certain circles that Israel do nothing as Hamas continues to lob rockets into Israel. Hamas knew that Israeli retaliation would result in civilian casualties; they counted on them for political support. What does this say about Hamas' commitment to the Palestinian people?

[Mudhammam]

I have no problem with Harris' arguments.

I also think you mischaracterize the role of Hamas in Gaza. Hamas is not interested in the liberty and well being of the Palestinians there, they are interested in power. Israel has committed to relieving import restrictions, but rightly asks for the internationally supervised demilitarization of Gaza. I think many people forget why the border crossings are closed and a blockade was put into effect to begin with.

I also don't understand the reflexive demand in certain circles that Israel do nothing as Hamas continues to lob rockets into Israel. Hamas knew that Israeli retaliation would result in civilian casualties; they counted on them for political support. What does this say about Hamas' commitment to the Palestinian people?

Name one government that isn't interested in power; that Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinian people is of course a claim Israel's supporters like to make, though without any basis. The Palestinians elected them to govern so unless that was largely fraudulent, and I have seen no evidence or argument to suggest as much, it would seem that they must be doing something right.

The rest of your arguments are asinine. Israel has devastated the region through occupations, blockades, and military operations for 45 years. It's understandable why the oppressed might react and lash out at the oppressor. After all, the result of those policies I mentioned have created one of the poorest peoples in the world, and then every few years Israel goes and shits on them some more. Of course, blaming the victim is nothing new and is a common tactic of Israeli propagandists.

And no one suggested Israel should do nothing. They should seek to rectify the problems they have created through peaceful negotiations rather than exacerbate them by senselessly murdering thousands and demolishing entire neighborhoods.

Israel started this mess after the three Jewish teenagers were tragically murdered. Now they're exercising collective punishment and their apologists make me sick.

[Cato]

I'm starting to wonder if you actually read Harris' transcript and clarifying notes. Harris isn't engaged in Zionist/Israeli apologetics. He goes out of his way to acknowledge Israel's responsibility in the ongoing conflict. What Harris does do, and what I agree with, is to remove this veneer of moral equivalency when discussing events in Gaza.

You mentioned negotiations. Who precisely is Israel supposed to negotiate with? The PNA or Hamas? Who is going to enforce Palestinian compliance with whatever is agreed to? Why is everyone so quick to forget the violent reaction of the Palestinians every time their supposed leaders came back with something even resembling a framework for a peaceful settlement?

The above is the Palestinian reason why a two state solution is untenable. The Israeli problem is that there's no way to back up the West Bank settlements. This leaves two options. The status quo or a one state solution. A one state solution has Egypt taking Gaza and Israel and Jordan negotiating a new border in the West Bank.

[Minimalist]

but rightly asks for the internationally supervised demilitarization of Gaza.

Judging by the respective body count the demilitarization of Israel might achieve more.

[Cato]

but rightly asks for the internationally supervised demilitarization of Gaza.

Judging by the respective body count the demilitarization of Israel might achieve more.

Sound strategy if your goal is the extermination of Jews.

[Mudhammam]

[Autumnlicious]

See it simply:

By the Geneva conventions, using infrastructure for military use makes it a legitimate target.

1. Hamas uses schools, residential neighbourhoods and hospitals for military targets, thus endangering civilians inside.

2. Every ceasefire (which means you stop firing at the enemy -- only that) has been met with Hamas using it to position more Qassam rockets.

3. Hamas has no military bargaining power.

If they do not surrender, then they are solely responsible for the death of Gazans.

Frankly, I never liked the Israelis, but Hamas continually picks a fight with a stronger bully and then hides behind/sets up civilians for the slaughter.

To hell with Gaza -- pound them until they unconditionally surrender or kill them all.

There is no middle ground any more -- it has gone on too long.

The only thing that dumb shit liberals seem to see is that there aren't droves of dead Israelis -- they're alive due to Iron Dome.

Without Iron Dome, we wouldn't see this misplaced bleeding heart bullshit that only enriches Hamas leadership and further allows them to devote money towards weapons, not food.