Why is Christ's death considered a sacrifice?

[Jenny A]

To be resurrected, glorified beyond comprehension, seated at the right hand of the creator of reality. Is. Not. A. Sacrifice.

To be beaten to a bloody pulp with glass shard whips, having His forehead shredded by twisted needles, and left hanging from metal spikes driven through your wrists for a crowd of people that could give a shit...JUST BECAUSE HE LOVES THEM.

Only an insensitive and ungrateful douche-bag like you would say that's not a sacrifice.

Moreover, you seem to forget that He sacrificed, meaning gave up completely, every single earthly desire to indulge in sin. Whereas I bet a lamebrain like you couldn't stop stroking your own prick, much less your ego, for less than 5 minutes.

Now we're cooking. So the sacrifice was giving up sin during life? I was taught that Jesus' sinlessness was necessary, but not that giving up sin was part of his sacrifice. Do you have any Bible verses to support that notion?

And he got some pretty cool compensation for not sinning. Having the heavens open up and god announce he likes you is pretty good. And then there's the ability to do miracles. The ability to raise the dead and walk on water would be cool.

Side note: I don't think that being without sin in the sense the Jesus was supposed to have been is possible for a human. The very idea that he could do it suggests he was not human at all--especially if thought crimes are included. And I'm not really sure he managed it even if you take the Biblical account as accurate. He may have obeyed all the negative requirements, i.e. the do-nots, but he sure failed at "be fruitful and multiply." Come to think of it he may not have managed honor thy father and mother all that well. If lying by omission or equivocation is a sin, he failed there too as he just plain tells the disciples that I speak in parables so that the masses won't get it, but here let me tell you the real truth. And if thought crimes count then the pleading at Gethsemane was probably a sin too. Certainly he was arrogant from time to time.

[John V]

Define "sacrifice" or go away alpha.

Sure.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrifice

Some definitions and examples which go beyond the narrow definition you insist on:

the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone (the first definition given)

No sacrifice is too great when it comes to her children.
He made many personal sacrifices to provide help to the city's homeless people.

And no sir, you haven't read your Bible AT ALL. HE GAINED EVERYTHING. HE WAS REWARDED HANDSOMELY AFTER DOING HIS DEMENTED FATHER'S WILL.

Er, no, he was God before, and God after. You act as if he were a normal mortal man given a great reward. Read the Bible - that's not the case.

[FatAndFaithless]

Praise be to Jesus, whose minor inconvenience on the cross absolved us of our sins...

[archangle]

he died instead of running? Maybe he had plenty of chances to get away. And he tried to stand up in the way people stood up against injustice back then. And like today, paid the price.

I am with fat and clueless too. I mean really? one day of suffering? Jesus got of easy.

[Neo-Scholastic]

First the caveat: I’m New Church and my responses reflect that position. Swedenborg’s theology does not include post-Council of Nicaea doctrines.

So the sacrifice was giving up sin during life? I was taught that Jesus' sinlessness was necessary, but not that giving up sin was part of his sacrifice. Do you have any Bible verses to support that notion?

In His humanity, Jesus of Nazareth had the opportunity to sin but choose not to do so. It is this purity that gives Him power over evil.

And he got some pretty cool compensation for not sinning.

You can share in that compensation also by not sinning.

Having the heavens open up and god announce he likes you is pretty good.

The transfiguration foreshadowed His glorification. Glorification means the sheading of His earthly nature.

I don't think that being without sin in the sense the Jesus was supposed to have been is possible for a human.

Many people thought it was impossible for a man to run faster than a four-minute mile.

The very idea that he could do it suggests he was not human at all--especially if thought crimes are included.

In one sense you are correct. The Divine Human emptied itself to take on an earthly human existence and operate through it. So if you look at Jesus Christ, He was uniquely qualified to serve as our redeemer. In physical form, he was fully human, subject to the same limitations as the rest of us. In spiritual form however, He is the fullness what it means to be Human.

And I'm not really sure he managed it even if you take the Biblical account as accurate.

What today’s scholars mean by history is much different from what “history” meant to ancient writers. The New Church looks for the inner, spiritual meaning of the narrative, presented in earthly terms. I would go further. Prior to the formation of the canon, many ‘gospels’ were floating around: the Gospel according to Philip, the Hidden Book of John, and the most famous Gospel of Thomas. Wrapping spiritual ideas in historical details seems to have been common practice.

[RobbyPants]

I mean really? one day of suffering? Jesus got of easy.

That, and the whole thing is arbitrary and unnecessary. He could have chosen to not be bothered by the acts that caused suffering. He is God, after all. The fact that he chose to suffer during the crucifixion and hell only mean that he's a masochist. It all boils down to:

• Jesus chose to suffer because he wanted to. Not a sacrifice.
  
• Jesus chose to suffer because otherwise the atonement wouldn't be complete. Ergo, God is interested in arbitrary suffering to be appeased about this whole original sin fiasco. Arbitrary, unnecessary sacrifice.
  
• Jesus wasn't powerful enough to not suffer, yet he somehow is powerful enough to resurrect the dead and extract himself from hell. Sacrifice justified by baseless, ad hoc limitations on God's power.
  

[Neo-Scholastic]

Jesus got off easy.

The wages of sin are death. If you accept His sacrifice, then YOU are the one getting off easy.

[Ryantology]

The wages of sin are death.

The con.

His sacrifice

The scam.

YOU

The sucker.

[Ravenshire]

In His humanity, Jesus of Nazareth had the opportunity to sin but choose not to do so. It is this purity that gives Him power over evil.

In his humanity, jeebus was a bastard therefor bathed in sin from the moment of it's birth, at least according to that poorly written excuse for a book.

And, according to Deuteronomy 23...

23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

...jeebus couldn't even worship gawd.

Yet you guys claim it as your savior.

[ManMachine]

Given that it's on topic with my other thread about the reason for the crucifixion, I'll bring this here:


Growing up Christian, the single most resounding things I heard was talk about "Christ's sacrifice". He died on the cross to save our sins. His sacrifice provided our salvation. What great love God showed through this sacrifice.

Now, this is often compared to lots of Old Testament sacrifices, where people had to set one of their goats on fire because God liked how it smelled. This makes sense to be classified as a sacrifice, because the goat herder had one less goat. Regardless of whether or not this goat burning made any sense or was necessary in the strictest sense is beside the point; it was a sacrifice.

So Jesus comes, spreads the good word, pisses off the people in charge, and is summarily executed. But then it's revealed that this death was a sacrifice and it was to atone for our sins. This is also why we don't have to burn goats anymore (does God still like how that smells?). The problem is, three days later, Jesus rose from the dead and eventually went up to heaven. This is constantly reaffirmed in Easter services every year. "He is risen! hallelujah!" and "Our God is a living God!" So, everyone accepts that he's not actually dead. How was that a sacrifice? Sure, he suffered for three days, and I'm sure that wasn't fun, but it was only a sacrifice in the sense that he sacrificed some of his happiness.

To go back to the whole goat thing, if the goat herders were told to immolate one of their goats, and three days later, it arose from the ashes no worse for the wear, it wouldn't be a sacrifice; it would be goat torture. So, did God save our sins by subjecting his son/avatar/himself to torture?

Creepy.

The crucifixion is one of the few independently affirmed historical facts about the historical figure we now know as Jesus. It is mentioned by a number of contemporary non-Christian writers. This fact is as close to universally accepted as anything this old can be.

But, that is as far as it goes. There is nothing about why he was crucified outside the bible. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the man the Romans crucified had nothing to do with the founding of Christianity.

A Roman called Mara bar Sarapion wrote to his son sometime between the 1st and 3rd century (exact date unknown) about the unjust persecution of three wise men, included in his list was Socrates, Pythagoras and a man he calls the 'wise king' of the Jews. This non-Christian use of the phrase has led to many scholars concluding that 'king of the Jews' is not a Christian title. Mara also talks about these wise men living on through the wisdom of their teachings and in the specific case of Jesus, not through some kind of resurrection.

It does seem that the concept of 'everlasting life' existed independently of Christianity at the time, but it was a metaphor for the permanence of wisdom rather than the immortality of a deity. As we all know the divinity of Jesus was hotly debated well into the 4th century, the divinity of Jesus was not automatically accepted immediately following his death, it was a slow burning concept that took hundreds of years to permeate the religion and become accepted as Universal Christian doctrine.

The historical Jesus, it seems, was wise, I wonder how horrified he would have been if he'd have known he was going to be turned into a god, had things turned out differently it might have been Socrates or Pythagoras the god-botherers were praying to, who knows?

MM