Why knocking is so important.

[Undeceived]

[Tobie]

Less of that, there's been enough circular reasoning already today.

[Goosebump]

Well Dirch I think I have managed to come to a conclusion. Please bare in mind I'm not a great intelligence. I have not made any great discoveries, published any works or invented anything profound. I'm a poor speller as I often lack attention to detail. My understanding of things may be simple to you but I do try to understand.

You said you preformed this 'knocking' business and it resulted in spiritual gifts.

Part of this gift or perhaps because of it or simply the success of the 'knocking' was that:

What I feel as a believer that I did not before is a greater capacity for love, contentment, peace and joy.

This is part of the proof, to yourself, that the 'knocking' worked and god is with you and believable.

Ok I get that.

You also said that this is a quest or mission. Of instruction? I think we can infer it is an instruction in your belief system which you believe sincerely because of the success of the 'knocking' and the result of that success.

What I can't reconcile is that somebody with a self professed “greater capacity for love” on a quest or mission of instruction could behave as you do when performing that instruction.

I, in my very limited experience, have not encountered a teacher who belittled or made sport of their students as an instrument of their instruction. I don't believe this is taught to new teachers, quite the opposite in fact.

So I don't see how that would follow from your previous conviction. I would expect that somebody with your capacities would always strive to be calm, measured and kind if not always successful.

So I guess my argument is an ad hominem. In that your actions do not bare out your convictions. So I reject your convictions because they don't seem to carry enough weight with yourself to strive to act on them.

That is just the way it's come across to me. My apologize if I've missed some greater point but I had trouble getting past this conundrum of what you've become with the holy spirit and how you act when sharing that experience. Like I said I'm no great thinker.

[Minimalist]

I am in sales as apart of my Job and I have to ask seek and knock every single day.

That makes a lot of sense, Drippy. We are constantly bombarded by door-to-door salesmen (and it is over 100 most days out here in the Summer) and my wife and I always ask.... "what kind of an asshole would think that was a useful way of selling something."


Now I have my answer. You.

[Losty]

I am in sales as apart of my Job and I have to ask seek and knock every single day.

That makes a lot of sense, Drippy. We are constantly bombarded by door-to-door salesmen (and it is over 100 most days out here in the Summer) and my wife and I always ask.... "what kind of an asshole would think that was a useful way of selling something."


Now I have my answer. You.

Hmm....I have a friend who sometimes calls me drippy

[Crossless2.0]

Hmm....I have a friend who sometimes calls me drippy

I somehow doubt that your friend has to go through the trouble of that incessant, infernal knocking. And your second coming is probably a hell of a lot more reliable than Jesus'.

[Tonus]

Well... there is probably some knocking involved.

[Drich]

Kind of a misattribution. I've never personally given enough shits to to go through the rigamarole for any god (and thusly have never had any promises washed away). Others, unfortunately enough for them, have - they've told you so, and it didn't work for them. You are either incapable of, or refuse to address their claims with any consistency. If x happening is proof of god, then x not happening would be...what?

You argue against your own claim with your endless modifiers. They are excuses Drich, and you've been seen straight through.

X= the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit is the proof of God.

When we ask seek and knock we receive the proof of God in the Holy Spirit as per Luke 11.

No modifiers. If one A/S/K as out lined in luke 11 then He will receive the Holy Spirit.

If one does not have the Holy Spirit, then He has not approached God as outlined in Luke 11.

Real simple.

[FatAndFaithless]

But..I thought the Holy Spirit is God. How can he be proof for himself if he is the claim in the first place?

[Drich]

Only God is perfect, only God is Good.

We know the bible is accurate because in the bible their are promises. If one does XYZ he will get 123. I know the bible is accurate because the one perfect and good God has kept His end of the deal after i kept mine.

Let me get this straight:
At first, I know that the Bible is not infallible and there might be errors here and there.
The bible tells me about its god and makes promises (all of them quite vague and indeterminate) ==> I do what the bible tells me to (aka wish REALLY hard) ==> the promises are fulfilled ==> God exists and it's the one of the Bible, which therefore becomes accurate.

This is what is getting through of your position.

This system is flawed because you have no way of knowing if the result is real or just a figment of your imagination caused by wishful thinking and confirmation bias.

That is, you are (unconsciously) actually starting from the conclusion (god exists) because it's an idea you happen to like, and then you try to justify and rationalize your belief through scripture.

Ah, no. Again God is an complete independent and autonomous being. The fact that many of you have your own view of God that has failed under scrutiny causing you to abandon your faith is testament to that.

To know God is not apart of your imagination is much like the experience of knowing that anyother person of you life is not imaginary. Their is direct and constant input that often times opposes your own ideas and values.

---

Let me get this straight:
At first, I know that the Bible is not infallible and there might be errors here and there.

i might know of one.

The bible tells me about its god and makes promises (all of them quite vague and indeterminate) ==>

do you have an example?
What is offered in luke 11 is spelled in plain english.

I do what the bible tells me to (aka wish REALLY hard) ==> the promises are fulfilled ==> God exists and it's the one of the Bible, which therefore becomes accurate.

you have read anything have you.

This is what is getting through of your position.

This system is flawed because you have no way of knowing if the result is real or just a figment of your imagination caused by wishful thinking and confirmation bias.

That is, you are (unconsciously) actually starting from the conclusion (god exists) because it's an idea you happen to like, and then you try to justify and rationalize your belief through scripture.

Actually i did not start from a position that God exists. I start a netural position to see if any thing existed outside this life.[/quote]