Why knocking is so important.

[Tonus]

We are not talking about God here sport, we are talking about gravity. To which I have provided at least 3 different verifiable links to proof to support my assertions, that point out to the misplaced faith you all have placed in your 'anti gravity' buddies have in their understanding of it.

You seem to have missed the point of the original message regarding that. In fact, you helped prove it by pointing to additional information which can be used to verify whether that faith is misplaced. By anyone, and to everyone. You have been arguing that A/S/K works on an individual level and cannot be verified in the way that gravity can, and you have shown exactly how the two are completely different: you can point at facts and knowledge about gravity and say "this is how it really works, and it can be verified these particular ways and will yield these specific results." Then you point at conjecture and anecdotes about A/S/K and say "you'll get the same results as me, and by the same results I mean they might be the same and they might be completely different."

Do you actually believe that those two types of "faith" are the same?

[Drich]

R2d2 did bring up a good point when he said that understanding gravity (believing in it)/having faith in what is known is how we can put things and people in orbit. If one does not have faith in what is known, flight would not be possible let alone space travel.

Like wise you can not believe in God for a time, or rather all the time we have been given in this life. However once this life is over your disbelief will not save you. Just like in the case of disbelief in gravity, you still will be affected. Because all are subject to God's judgement once your time here is over.

But that requires a god to exist in the first place, which you are yet to show is the case.

Again not my charge. All I am required to do is point out the mustard seed of faith need to find said proof, and to demonstrate (via gravity in this case) that no matter what we believe in, we use far more faith, in applying those beliefs in our lives.

Again, R2D2's Arguement that says shows belief in the understanding of gravity put planes in the air and ships in space.. Now how many trillions have we spent in the exercise of those beliefs?

Now compare that to what God asks.. That we ask seek and knock as outlined in luke 11. That's it.

If you or anyone else wants proof get off your ass and stop whining about it, just do what you have been told to do to get it

---

We are not talking about God here sport, we are talking about gravity. To which I have provided at least 3 different verifiable links to proof to support my assertions, that point out to the misplaced faith you all have placed in your 'anti gravity' buddies have in their understanding of it.

You seem to have missed the point of the original message regarding that. In fact, you helped prove it by pointing to additional information which can be used to verify whether that faith is misplaced. By anyone, and to everyone. You have been arguing that A/S/K works on an individual level and cannot be verified in the way that gravity can, and you have shown exactly how the two are completely different: you can point at facts and knowledge about gravity and say "this is how it really works, and it can be verified these particular ways and will yield these specific results." Then you point at conjecture and anecdotes about A/S/K and say "you'll get the same results as me, and by the same results I mean they might be the same and they might be completely different."

Do you actually believe that those two types of "faith" are the same?

Did you ever once consider if God could be demonstrated or 'proofed' as gravity is proofed He would not be God? In short we have to have mastery over a force like gravity in order to predict how it works and how we can over come its force. If this were true of an all powerful God, he would not be all powerful would he?

Now ask yourself how does one obtain proof of an all powerful God? The short answer there is one does not get anything one is not given. Thankfully God offers proof if we first will humble ourselves and ask Him for it.


Faith is faith. Even with all of the proofs of gravity there are readily available online, how many where use to support any of the argument made against mine?

Why? Because what was believed in those other arguements were strictly faith based, and had no foundations. I'm not saying what was said was fabricated. What I am saying is that either those who were arguing with me were completely going off what they thought/had faith in their current knoweledge, or they saw where I was going and why I wanted them to provide the proof I was requesting, to beat them over the head with their proof in relation to how is would support this faith arguement.

[Tonus]

Did you ever once consider if God could be demonstrated or 'proofed' as gravity is proofed He would not be God?

I consider that if god was real, I would not need to demonstrate him. He would do it himself, on the same scale as pretty much every god does in the ancient texts that mention them. If god revealed himself to everyone and everyone said "I know now, he exists," would he suddenly blink out of existence? That doesn't make sense to me. I think that if I have to conjure up god through some ritual that seems more easy to get wrong than right and only reveals him to me in some vague manner, then maybe he isn't there.

Why? Because what was believed in those other arguements were strictly faith based, and had no foundations.

But what they believed did have a foundation. The number they provided had a specific context, and you used information that has been arrived at via testing and research to provide more information. All of that information can be tested and verified under the conditions specified and produce the same results, yes?

[Tobie]

Again not my charge. All I am required to do is point out the mustard seed of faith need to find said proof, and to demonstrate (via gravity in this case) that no matter what we believe in, we use far more faith, in applying those beliefs in our lives.

That is where you are wrong. Piling more supernatural claims on top of each other does not shift the burden of proof from you. You claim god exists - you prove it.

[Angrboda]

There's a difference here Drich. My faith in what science says about gravity can be confirmed by rational research, testing, and inspection. What you are asking us to have faith in is the truth of words in a two thousand year old book which we can't verify. The two kinds of faith aren't in any way comparable. The rest is just window dressing.

(And unfortunately for you, anyone with a fair knowledge of physics could see that Chuck handed you your ass. Average acceleration of gravity at the earth's surface is independent of any other forces which might act upon and interfere with the pull of gravity at the earth's surface, such as air drag. That you don't understand this basic fact is your failing, not his.)

[Cyberman]

God simply asks that you take a mustard seeds worth and place it where He tells us to place it.

And everyone here has, in one form or another, told you where to place it. Nobody's interested in buying your bridge without it first being established that there's even a bridge. Assertions piled on top of assertions will never become compelling evidence.

[Cyberman]

Did you ever once consider if God could be demonstrated or 'proofed' as gravity is proofed He would not be God?

By George, I think he's got it!

Drich, it's not our fault if what you are touting as "God" fails to meet basic standards of evidence. Maybe you need to reassess your claims, why you believe them to be true and certainly your reasons for foisting them onto others.

[Chas]

That blithering idiot is still going on about a/s/k ?

How many times has it been explained to him that "you're not doing right - keep trying" is a facile, self-reinforcing load of dreck?

[Minimalist]

By George, I think he's got it!

Not a chance. He'll never get it.

[Cyberman]

Notice I never actually specified what he's got.