Why knocking is so important.

[Drich]

If 'we' don't expect our leaders to chase after us and beg us for our approval, then why would we expect the master of all creation to do so?

They do. It is what happens in any democracy when there is an impending election.

We could have a system where leaders are completely unaccountable and unelected, but most would consider that a step backwards.

Ah, no. Queens don't get elected, and Presidents do not meet everyone that will vote for them.

If you get to meet a leader of a nation it is because you've made some sort of effort that places you in front of them.

---

If 'we' don't expect our leaders to chase after us and beg us for our approval, then why would we expect the master of all creation to do so?

The government depends on society. When a government has society behind itself, it basically has power and control. Would a society want an unresponsive government?
I do not know why anyone should believe in or worship a being that refuses to reveal itself to us. Maybe He's just playing hide and seek with us, maybe He doesn't care... or maybe He doesn't exist.

Or maybe it is as the bible says. We must ask seek and knock to meet with God on His terms and not our own.

[Tobie]

Ah, no. Queens don't get elected, and Presidents do not meet everyone that will vote for them.

If you get to meet a leader of a nation it is because you've made some sort of effort that places you in front of them.

No one is in any doubt that the leader of their nation exists, which is where you analogy fails.

[Drich]

If you wanted to meet the queen or the president, would it be their "responsibility to beseech themselves to you?" Not unless you were a ruler of some other nation. Now imagine a being who's position far exceeds and position of power held here on earth, and ask yourself the question you just asked again.

If 'we' don't expect our leaders to chase after us and beg us for our approval, then why would we expect the master of all creation to do so?

Perhaps the idea that God must 'beseech' us, is another part of the house built upon the sand that must get washed away so a proper house can be built.

The difference is I CAN meet them. And we do expect our leaders to "chase after us and beg our approval." That is what campaigning and approval ratings are for. The Japanese or Chinese emperors of history might have been a better example. Even then people had seen or talked to them on a rare occasion. They were flesh and blood that believed they were gods, not beings that nobody had ever laid eyes upon or talked to. Like you said, it takes imagination.

Rock is susceptible to erosion too.

And according to Christ in luke 11 you can also meet with God. But on his terms and not your own.

Also what erosion of rock is their when their has been a structure built over it?

---

How much pride does it take to assume that the picture/understanding of God you had as a child, can even be close to the creator of everything?

I don't know. You are the guy who thinks a voice in your head or a funny feeling is the creator of everything right?
So you tell me.

Where/when did you get that? Or are you just assuming your picture of how God works is correct?

[Minimalist]

I just see this ASK business as a way to make it our fault for not believing.

Wait a moment. I definitely assume the responsibility for not believing in Drippy's silly shit. When you consider the utter absurdity of it and then look at the mentality of fuckheaded proponents like Drippy it is easy to dismiss it for the nonsense that it is.

It's the only reasonable conclusion to make.

[Jenny A]

If I could produce God on demand then he ceases to be God.

-Rather, God has given us a path to follow in order that we may present ourselves before Him.

If you want 'proof' you must seek it where and how God told you to look.

The problem I have with this is that you really have to assume there is a god AND that you have the proper instructions. People go looking for Allah and the truth of the Book of Mormon in just the way you instruct and some of them find god---just a rather different one then yours.

Indeed, it is about choice. If your not looking for God you will indeed find what your looking for. Your observation works both ways. If you don't want to believe in God or gods not A/S/King will work well to support what you want to believe.

Actually you can go looking as per instructions and not find. Been there, done that. But, the more important question is why should we go looking?

Put Krishna to the test, then put what I have said to the test, and then decide for yourself.

And have you put Krishna to the test? My guess is you have not.

[Minimalist]

Krishna would kick his ass..... if he were any more real than 'jesus.'

[jesus_wept]

I just tried them both and the queen of the fairies answered, what next?

What did they say?

Who is they? The fairy queen?

She told me fairies are eternal, that they live outside time and space so they cannot be detected, they created this universe, and that when we die we all go up to the big fairy ring in the sky. Unless we're naughty and deny their existence, in which case we're sent to Captain Hook's ship to be tortured for eternity.

Seems legit to me.

I think your god must've been busy or something? Perhaps helping somebody find their car keys or score a goal, or maybe just watching some children starve...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIeY7J9kjg0

[FreeTony]

The analogies don't really work when you're talking about an omnipotent being. It requires virtually zero effort for an omnipotent being to come along and say hello to everyone individually. For a human being to say hello to 7 billiob people takes a lot of effort and time.

Theist Logic goes like this:

1. God exists
2. Not everyone seems to believe God exists.
3. Therefore those that don't believe are either doing something wrong, or lying. (It could be that God is doing something wrong, but they ignore this)

They never even consider that maybe a God might not exist.

[Nine]

possiable to talk to yoda, it is. But, first "you must unlearn what you have learned."

Yep, that ridiculous that I'd be joking about it to. In fact I do joke about it.

Then the question becomes, if God does exist would you want any type of relationship with Him?

I'm not sure why this is what the question becomes. My point was that the method is flawed to begin with. Its not even a sensible question. I've never seen anyone actually define what their Gods traits are in any detail. How could I possibly tell you if I want anything to do with something that is completely unknown.

[ShaMan]

And the holy spirit told me that the bible is a lie. Next.

Indeed, what did 'he' say next?

Come on D-man, you had to know I was kidding. I don't actually hear voices in my head.

I know what you call the 'holy spirit'. It's a groovy gut-heart vibe that convinces you you're this or that (good, bad, right, wrong, etc.). It's also the 'voice' you hear in your head that communicates the substance of your model of "god" and his message to you in a manner that only you can distinguish. In other words... It's pure subjective egoism.