Be honest, am I going to hell for "my" atheism?

[Lek]

If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to give them all your money or they will shoot you, are you choosing to get shot in the head if you choose not to give up the money?

All choices have consequences.  

[robvalue]

Welcome back to the table Lek

I converted to Christianity while you were away, but then I deconverted so I'm atheist again. I tried it out for half an hour. Didn't seem that great :p

[Tonus]

So tell me, am I going to hell just simply because of a changed philosophical schema?

I don't believe that hell is "eternal" torment, but I would assume you're going there simply because you are choosing to go there.

This is almost sensible in a universe where Yahweh exists, and it's just a reminder of how terrifying the god of the Bible is.  There really seems to be no particular rhyme or reason to the way he set things up, but he doesn't care: you either follow the rules and hope that you understood them right, or you receive your 'just' punishment, which god will insist you requested.  He's the very image of a manipulative and abusive parent or spouse, right down to the part where the victims keep telling us that "he's a really nice guy when you get to know him; the black eyes and broken arm are totally my fault."

[Faith No More]

All choices have consequences.  

And the award for the most meaningful meaningless response goes to Lek.

[Brian37]

Waiting for evidence from a theist for evidence for their particular god is like waiting for evidence for Santa.

[robvalue]

But Santa can be "easily disproved" by saying that everyone knows he's made up. Great! :p

[Norman Humann]

Welcome back, Lek. Good to see you didn't leave for good.

[Lek]

Welcome back, Lek. Good to see you didn't leave for good.

Thanks. I keep trying to quit this forum, but it's like an addiction. Next thing I know, I'm back hitting the keys again. In regards to the original question, Quantum wondered what had changed about him that would cause him to go to hell. He still acts morally the same in the world and the only thing that has changed is that he doesn't believe in God. The thing is, the point salvation hinges on is our belief in God and our acknowledgement of our reliance on him for this salvation. Of course, if we believe in him and want to be with him, we will obey his desire for us to live a moral life. But it's not our moral lives that gain us salvation, but our belief and trust in God. If a person is purposely living an immoral lifestyle, then obviously has no desire to please God or else he just doesn't believe in him. So it is not our morality per se that results in salvation, even though that is a part of following God, but rather our our belief and faith in him.

As far as comments made about wanting to choose hell rather than be with this terrible God, I think that's being dishonest. If I put a gun to your head and ask for your money, you'll give me the money. If I say to you "take the path on the left and it will take you to a place where you'll be happy forever. Take the path on the right and you'll go to a place that is worse than cutting your arm off or gouging out your own eye", you'll take the path on the left. The only reason that you would take the bad path is that you don't believe what I'm telling you. And that's what results in salvation - you must believe in God and accept that you are dependent on him.

[robvalue]

I think it's ridiculous that he values believing in him given no evidence higher than how you live your life. I can be super nice my whole life then get chucked in the can for using my analytical brain he gave me. That's some crap system right there.

[Lek]

I think it's ridiculous that he values believing in him given no evidence higher than how you live your life. I can be super nice my whole life then get chucked in the can for using my analytical brain he gave me. That's some crap system right there.

Good to talk to you again Rob.

What really matters is not what we think of his ways, but rather whether or not he is real. If he does exist and these are his ways, it doesn't do me any good to sit around contemplating how stupid he is. The fact that you think he is stupid or evil does nothing to determine if he exists or not. If we claim that he is omnipotent, then we believe that his reasoning is superior to ours, in which case we are the ones who see things wrongly. Would you want to be friends with someone who who refused to acknowledge who you were or that you even existed? It seems reasonable to me that if God wants us to be with him for eternity that he would at least require us to acknowledge him for who and what he is. As our creator, he has the right to require that of us.