After I know this how could I leave the church?

[ShaMan]

That just comes across as pejorative and polemical dismissal Minimalist.

The day I care what you think I'll let you know.

[Ben Davis]

Rather Tertullian's writings (or pseudo-writings) should be put outside of the polemics of either trying to just dismiss them out of hand, or saying that they completely substantiate the historicity of the person Jesus.

I haven't dismissed them out of hand. Through my reading, I've simply concluded that they don't substantiate the historicity of a divine Jesus and provided 3 headlines as to why.

...Tertullian is worth more care than that for those with genuine thinking and enquiring minds.

A gentle admonishment but an admonishment, none the less. If I came across as unthinking then I chose my words poorly. There's no need to descend in to veiled insults or rhetorical devices with me. If I've misunderstood the direction of this sentence then I hope it's no sign that your patience is being tested. Your input to this forum so far has been refreshing, overall.

[Anomalocaris]

I know that you are going to laugh. I only hope an explanation for this. I would like to think that these facts were not true. I was more happy when i was not a christian.

Tertullian was a roman lawyer that becomecome a christian. He had access to roman documents and made some declarations about 1st century A.D like this:

Tiberius6 accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favour of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all accusers of the Christians. [3] Consult your histories; you will there find that Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect, making profess then especially at Rome.

The thing that dont let me go from christianity is the fact that he says that in roman documents it is registered that when Jesus died there was a big portent in the sky; so we are not talking about an story recorded only in the gospels.

He exhibited many notable signs, by which His death was distinguished from all others. At His own free-will, He with a word dismissed from Him His spirit, anticipating the executioner's work. In the same hour, too, the light of day was withdrawn, when the sun at the very time was in his meridian blaze. Those who were not aware that this had been predicted about Christ, no doubt thought it an eclipse. You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives.

How could you leave? Easy, by being a real man (or woman) and not be swayed by any self-serving hearsay bullshit, unsupported by direct evidence and contradicting well validated understanding of how the universe works, that Christianity happen to send your way.

If you couldn't do that, then leave on account of the fact that Tertulian effectively explained with admirable pithiness that he himself was an idiot who believed this bullshit when he knew shouldn't:

"Credo quia absurdum est".

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

How can you leave the church? I suggest at a dead run, bobbing and weaving.

Boru

[Aractus]

BUT ...

Tertullian was a roman lawyer that becomecome a christian. He had access to roman documents and made some declarations about 1st century A.D like this:

---

Tiberius6 accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favour of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all accusers of the Christians. [3] Consult your histories; you will there find that Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect, making profess then especially at Rome.

---

Tertullian was 2nd-3rd century, not first. And the fact that he's referring to works that you and I can't verify is hearsay - he could very well have been reading texts that were discredited, or later discredited as historically reliable - without the texts which he is quoting from it's hearsay.

[jughead]

I know that you are going to laugh. I only hope an explanation for this. I would like to think that these facts were not true. I was more happy when i was not a christian.

Tertullian was a roman lawyer that becomecome a christian. He had access to roman documents and made some declarations about 1st century A.D like this:

Tiberius6 accordingly, in whose days the Christian name made its entry into the world, having himself received intelligence from Palestine of events which had clearly shown the truth of Christ's divinity, brought the matter before the senate, with his own decision in favour of Christ. The senate, because it had not given the approval itself, rejected his proposal. Caesar held to his opinion, threatening wrath against all accusers of the Christians. [3] Consult your histories; you will there find that Nero was the first who assailed with the imperial sword the Christian sect, making profess then especially at Rome.

The thing that dont let me go from christianity is the fact that he says that in roman documents it is registered that when Jesus died there was a big portent in the sky; so we are not talking about an story recorded only in the gospels.

He exhibited many notable signs, by which His death was distinguished from all others. At His own free-will, He with a word dismissed from Him His spirit, anticipating the executioner's work. In the same hour, too, the light of day was withdrawn, when the sun at the very time was in his meridian blaze. Those who were not aware that this had been predicted about Christ, no doubt thought it an eclipse. You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives.

Jesus never existed.

All your claims are based on wishfrul thinking, fabrication and fantasy. Religion is all man made and regional. If you would have been born in the middle east you would be lecturing us on Allah. If you lived in Utah you would be wearing magic underwear and looking for Jesus on some planet named Kolob.

Wake up...it is all man made lies.

---

Hi Ben

As a Christian, I would be wary of putting too much weight on this. As a Christian, this can be used as secondary supportive material. But if you're not a Christian there are ways to reject it. I think the primary reason for being a Christian, or at least starting to walk down that path, is always the question of whether you find Jesus a compelling character: a person, or even an idea, that you think leads us somewhere better than where we are right now.

Sure the myth of Jesus is compelling. But say you are following 'the myth of Jesus' and you subscribe to Christian principle like charity and good will. Just don't promote is as truth.

[JesusHChrist]

What happened to the OP? Another dump-shit-and-run theist? Who would have thought? Will this one learn something from the encounter or will it continue to promulgate bad arguments?

Where are the rest of the Tertullian veracity defenders? Disappeared like smoke from a burning bush...

[Aractus]

Give him a chance he's a new user. He may have believed his argument was stronger than we think.

[Minimalist]

Even some Christian scholars find the claims of Tertullian...less than believable:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/actspilate.html

F. F. Bruce writes (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?):

...

Then Tertullian, the great jurist-theologian of Carthage, addressing his Defence of Christianity to the man authorities in the province of Africa about AD 197, says: 'Tiberius, in whose time the Christian name first made its appearance in the world, laid before the Senate tidings from Syria Palestina which had revealed to him the truth of the divinity there manifested, and supported the motion by his own vote to begin with. The Senate rejected it because it had not itself given its approval. Caesar held to his own opinion and threatened danger to the accusers of the Christians."

It would no doubt be pleasant if we could believe this story of Tertullian, which he manifestly believed to be true but a story so inherently improbable and inconsistent with what we know of Tiberius, related nearly 170 years after the event, does not commend itself to a historian's judgment.

...

It seems at least one respected New Testament scholar is also quite dismissive of the Tertullian story, however unpleasant it might be.

Sadly for our poor, bemused jesus freaks the very usage of the term Syria Palestina by Tertullian constitutes an anachronism by which we can date this particular piece of holy horseshit.

As noted here, the term Syria Palestina dates from 135 and was coined by the Roman emperor Hadrian upon the crushing of the bar Kokhba rebellion. "Tiberius" had been dead for nearly 100 years before the name was invented to do away with "Judaea."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palestina

In short, what Tertullian wrote is what we today call fucking bullshit.

[Undeceived]

Sadly for our poor, bemused jesus freaks the very usage of the term Syria Palestina by Tertullian constitutes an anachronism by which we can date this particular piece of holy horseshit.

As noted here, the term Syria Palestina dates from 135 and was coined by the Roman emperor Hadrian upon the crushing of the bar Kokhba rebellion. "Tiberius" had been dead for nearly 100 years before the name was invented to do away with "Judaea."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palestina

In short, what Tertullian wrote is what we today call fucking bullshit.

Tertullian wrote "Syria Palestina" after it became the official name of the region. Isn't that just like saying Russia was involved in WWII? Technically the land was the Soviet Union, but we all know it as Russia today.