My Thoughts On Militant Atheism

[JesusHChrist]

The over-arching premise of this thread, i.e., to effect social/political/whatever change requires a mature, sensible, reasoned approach, is patently false.

History is RICH with examples of parody, mockery, insults, what-have-you, effecting that very change.

South Park, Malcom X, the work of De Goya, Dante, Celsus, the entire spectrum of political cartoons and on and on and on. Archie Bunker, Stephen Colbert, parody's of pedophile priests...JesusHChrist there are a ton of examples.

The premise is ludicrous.

You may not like people saying mean things about beliefs others hold dear, but that's just too damn bad honey crisp. Shaming believers into keeping their idiocy on the down-low is no different than shaming Nazis, racists , homophobes or sexists into keeping it under wraps. It's called behavioral norming and is a powerful tool in the Devil's Toolbox.

No doubt, the most successful meta-strategy is to use BOTH methods - attacking our object both with reasoned argument AS WELL AS with mockery/parody and insults. Each will choose their own path as suits them. Ain't democracy great?

Please consider growing a pair and toughen up that easily-outraged skin of ur-in. Cuz it's only going to get worse from here.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, I've gotta say, the comments regarding religion in this thread have been rather tame (comparative to how medieval it -can- get). What would be more insulting to a catholic, for example, jokes about gay jesus (and pedo priests)- or a cold and unflinching criticism of vicarious redemption and the "moral status" of those who accept it or wish for it?

[Clueless Morgan]

We need a "soap opera" thread on this forum...

Definitely. This thread has been forum gold. I think I'm addicted.

Each will choose their own path as suits them. Ain't democracy great?

Celestine has already expressed his opinion that democracy is the most vile of political systems, so I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark and say he wouldn't agree with this. :p

But otherwise, I agree: either kind of approach (the softer approach or the more aggressive approach) is equally useful, but calling one of them wholly off limits is like entering a boxing match and then having one of your arms cut off.

[The Grand Nudger]

More like demanding that the other guy have one of -his- arms cut off. So as not to punch you in the grill too hard or too often. Personally, I think religion -needs- to be kicked in the balls and the face, a war on two fronts.

[Chas]

Why should it be done in any particular manner? Because you have a belief? You can imagine how persuasive that might be to someone like myself.....yes? We (But I can stick with "I", if you'd like) subject things to ridicule as an acid test. We/I do this with -everything-.

ridicule then your own treatment of others. If you were truly concerned about wanting to have an intellectual discussion with someone on religion you would know that people are not well receptive to being said that they are wrong, least of all having their thoughts called stupid, ignorant, or the like. When I came here you even posted a indecent picture of the muslim prophet, how well do you think the muslims would see that? Do you think that posting such pictures would change their minds? Or do you think that it would enrage them to see you being so disrespectful? How can you expect disrespect to change their minds? You ought to feel shame for the way you have acted, I have seen children that acted more mature than what I have seen on this forum.

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What is wrong with countering militant religion with militancy (and, again, it depends on what you define as "militant")?

What is wrong with adding gasoline to the fire? By militant I mean the utter lack of respect and maturity offered by either side in a discussion.

You disingenuous cunt. You are no more an atheist than Islam is the religion of peace.

[JesusHChrist]

Yes my democracy jab was aimed at Celestine's prior comment on the vileness of Democracy.

Technically, I don't think there are any modern democracies, regardless of the prevailing colloquial use of the term. Most (all?) free countries are republics, which is arguably/potentially a superior system.

But, now back to our regularly-scheduled god-mockery. Politics can be so dull.

"ex-" Catholic? Hmmmmmm......

[Mudhammam]

I might be a little to harsh, but I am only hard on others because I am hard on myself.

I will admit I should not have insulted others, even though I did not feel as though I was insulting them nor was I trying to I should have payed closer attention to what I was saying. I must remember what I myself would not find insulting isn't necessarily something that others would not.

I think generally when someone makes a thread called "Thoughts On...." we expect some actual thoughtfulness to be included.

You've done nothing but prove yourself to be the antithesis of the romantic ideals you tried to describe in your OP.

[The Grand Nudger]

Which would be fine.... if the OP's militant stance against militant stances led to someone dropping their militant stance after finding it to be ridiculous or shameful (because it was competently ridiculed or shamed from the point of view of that person and thusly untenable to maintain)- then mission accomplished.

In Celestine's defense (your welcome) pointing out that "she" is hypocritical would not invalidate her position, or even provide an adequate criticism of that position. We don't always follow (and aren't always capable of following) our own advice, even when it's good advice.

I know, Sho, that you aren't attempting to do this, I'm just giving our new member a hug, for a change - and there was opportunity to mention that bit about hypocrites not being wrong by virtue of their hypocrisy (which is a favorite of mine, even the devil has his day).

[Bibliofagus]

More like demanding that the other guy have one of -his- arms cut off. So as not to punch you in the grill too hard or too often. Personally, I think religion -needs- to be kicked in the balls and the face, a war on two fronts.

Totally agreed. And I'd take it one step further: worldwide and even in a secular country like my own holland, the deck is heavily stacked towards respecting religion, no matter what its actually causing or even openly propagating. This thread is a good example actually. I'd say there is good reason for 'militant atheists' to be in the theist face as much as possible. Too many of the rest of us are unsafe expressing - any - dissent.

So here's a big thank you from me to any of you guys who happen to read this. Your efforts are being appreciated!

[Mudhammam]

I wasn't trying to invalidate her argument... because I don't know exactly what it is. I was merely pointing out the irony of being lectured by such a thoughtless prick.